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Post subject: No more noise: Bye, bye Supersonic 22 - Hello '66 BFDR!!
Posted: Wed May 11, 2011 8:04 am
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Hey,
I just wanted to inform everybody interested (Hey Mike!) in the SS22 that I finally got back my SS22 today after trying to get rid of the loud hiss and hum at idle for the last couple of months and after Fender finally admitted the issues and obviously fixed something in the reverb path.
Bottom line is: This amp is going back again and now for good. :?
Although the hum when turning up the reverb is a lot more silent now, gone is the lovely/lively-ness of the reverb. :cry:
And the hiss is loud as ever. It's really loud! And I don't care for the official explanations (That this is a high gain amp, etc...), this amp is not usable at studios or at home!
Sorry, but NO THANKS!

The good news is: In the meantime I stumbled upon a '66 BFDR in mint condition! 8)
Image
Image

I just could not resist. :wink:

So today I had the chance of comparing the SS22 to a PRRI and a Vintage DR.
Soundwise the clean of the SS22 can't compete at all with the Deluxe, which it is supposed to emulate. The Deluxe clean is in a different league. (And I did swap the tubes in the SS22 with some nice NOS stuff to be fair.) The Princeton on the other hand holds up pretty well, it is a different sound though, less midscooped, but very sweet with the 10' and lovely tremolo and reverb. Plus, it is practically silent at idle.

So in the long journey with my SS22 I learned a few lessons:

1) Never buy an amp you did not test and also, try the exact unit you are going to buy. (In my defense, I first wanted an Egnater Rebel 30 Combo and had to order it on the internet because there was not dealer in my country at the time. I sent it back and exchanged it for the Supersonic 22.)

2) Guitar-magazine and "official" reviews are not to be trusted. (Not a single mention of any issues with this amp, although there were a lot of posts from users in various forums!)

3) Speakers make a huge difference! So does breaking in a speaker....
I swapped the original Oxford speaker in my BFDR (still sounded pretty, but very inefficient and I did not want to risk blowing the speaker) with an ALNICO Jensen copy (Twinsound Cream) and now with a WGS G12C.
The Alnico sounded really beautiful but harsh at first, and did not take pedals well. This will get better over time of ocurse and I will give it more time to break in, when I get a speaker cabinet for it. But when I put in the WGS ceramic suddenly the amp just sounded "right", the OD pedals also sound great, excactly like the classic Deluxe sounds you love.
Bright, but no harshness, even when using chanel 2!
And it sounds better every time I play it...

4) Biasing is no an exact sience. I probably read hundreds of threads about it, and everbody has their own opinion, starting from how much Watts different 6V6 tubes have to how much dissipation they can take. Some even seem to do it by ear.

5) You guys (especially Arjay, Mike and shimilou) rule!
Thanks for all the great info and help!

This is fun.

Cheers,
The reverend


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Post subject: Re: No more noise: Bye, bye Supersonic 22 - Hello '66 BFDR!!
Posted: Wed May 11, 2011 10:05 am
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Congrats!!!! 8) That's one beautiful DR! And I bet it sounds so much better than the SS! :wink:


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Post subject: Re: No more noise: Bye, bye Supersonic 22 - Hello '66 BFDR!!
Posted: Wed May 11, 2011 10:05 am
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Go and sin no more, my son.

:lol:

Glad you've now got an amp worthy of the phrase "pride of ownership", Rev.

It's a beauty too!

Rawk on!

8)

Arjay

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Post subject: Re: No more noise: Bye, bye Supersonic 22 - Hello '66 BFDR!!
Posted: Wed May 11, 2011 10:11 am
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Congrats on the "new" Deluxe Reverb. You just can't beat it. A lot of new products keep trying to reinvent the wheel but with the Deluxe it doesn't need reinventing. I think you made a wise choice. A friend of mine recently made a similar decision with his CVR (couldn't stand the hiss). Bought a reissue DR and is much happier.


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Post subject: Re: No more noise: Bye, bye Supersonic 22 - Hello '66 BFDR!!
Posted: Wed May 11, 2011 12:06 pm
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Reverend.....ya done "good"......congrats. on the '66. There's just no comparing the build quality between old & new.......mass produced vs hand made. Seems the quality of tone follows suit as well.

Enjoy the yardstick by which others are measured :D :D (envy-envy)


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Post subject: Re: No more noise: Bye, bye Supersonic 22 - Hello '66 BFDR!!
Posted: Wed May 11, 2011 12:19 pm
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Way to geaux Reverend! A very nice DR you've got there! Enjoy! :wink:


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Post subject: Re: No more noise: Bye, bye Supersonic 22 - Hello '66 BFDR!!
Posted: Wed May 11, 2011 12:27 pm
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You guys crack me up. :lol:


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Post subject: Re: No more noise: Bye, bye Supersonic 22 - Hello '66 BFDR!!
Posted: Wed May 11, 2011 12:31 pm
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Retroverbial wrote:
Go and sin no more, my son.

:lol:

Glad you've now got an amp worthy of the phrase "pride of ownership", Rev.

It's a beauty too!

Rawk on!

8)

Arjay


I've seen the light, so no more sining for me.


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Post subject: Re: No more noise: Bye, bye Supersonic 22 - Hello '66 BFDR!!
Posted: Wed May 11, 2011 1:02 pm
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Awesome DR. you wont regret it .The DR is THE amp for clean at lower wattages.I am dumbfounded how they can charge the same as a drri and get opposite results.


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Post subject: Re: No more noise: Bye, bye Supersonic 22 - Hello '66 BFDR!!
Posted: Wed May 11, 2011 1:23 pm
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Yes, it really is an awesome piece of machinery. Especially when you think, that the SS22 will go down in value so quickly....and the Deluxe Reverb will retain it's value, probably even increase.

The cool thing about these old amps is that you really get the sound you grew to love from all these classic recordings. I already owned a CVR, a SCXD and now a PRRI with the Deluxe, and it is the first time I am able to achieve the sounds I want to hear in my head.

And you only need to compare the layout of the under side of the chassis, the SS22 does not even have a bias pot that is accessable from the outside, V3 is almost impossible to get to...All the old Fender stuff is so practical. They should have stayed with that philosophy....


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Post subject: Re: No more noise: Bye, bye Supersonic 22 - Hello '66 BFDR!!
Posted: Wed May 11, 2011 2:42 pm
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Good choice and long music play 8)

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Post subject: Re: No more noise: Bye, bye Supersonic 22 - Hello '66 BFDR!!
Posted: Wed May 11, 2011 3:54 pm
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thereverend wrote:
the Deluxe Reverb will retain it's value, probably even increase....All the old Fender stuff is so practical. They should have stayed with that philosophy....


+1000

:mrgreen:

Arjay

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Post subject: Re: No more noise: Bye, bye Supersonic 22 - Hello '66 BFDR!!
Posted: Thu May 12, 2011 3:22 am
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thereverend write : " 4) Biasing is no an exact sience. I probably read hundreds of threads about it, and everbody has their own opinion, starting from how much Watts different 6V6 tubes have to how much dissipation they can take. Some even seem to do it by ear. "

________________________________________________________________

Sorry, but bias is very simple ...... and exact science for somebody who ( realy ) know, or for a real electronic techs.

Like me, you read lots of thing from people who don't realy know and write false or most of the time INCOMPLETE informations on the web.

I'm sure those people are honest and think they are right and do there best. But they are often wrong.


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Post subject: Re: No more noise: Bye, bye Supersonic 22 - Hello '66 BFDR!!
Posted: Thu May 12, 2011 8:43 am
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Sorry, maybe I did make it clear.
The principle and math behind it are exact of course.
But the "right" mA value (or % of max. dissipation) is something not so clear and depends on sonic preferences and quality of tubes among others.
And even when you know your plate voltage and measure the mV, chances are your 1 Ohm resistor has a tolerance of up to 20%.
Also the widley recommended 70% are maximum values. Do you go for the max. value or not? Some tubes are rated 12W but people bias them as 14W tubes, etc....


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Post subject: Re: No more noise: Bye, bye Supersonic 22 - Hello '66 BFDR!!
Posted: Thu May 12, 2011 10:19 am
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thereverend wrote:
Sorry, maybe I did make it clear.
The principle and math behind it are exact of course.
But the "right" mA value (or % of max. dissipation) is something not so clear and depends on sonic preferences and quality of tubes among others.
And even when you know your plate voltage and measure the mV, chances are your 1 Ohm resistor has a tolerance of up to 20%.
Also the widley recommended 70% are maximum values. Do you go for the max. value or not? Some tubes are rated 12W but people bias them as 14W tubes, etc....


+1

All of these factors contribute to the amp's tone (or lack thereof).

But theory and specs notwithstanding, it is the human ear which ultimately must be pleased.

Arjay

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"Here's why reliability is job one: A great sounding amp that breaks down goes from being a favorite piece of gear to a useless piece of crap in less time than it takes to read this sentence." -- BRUCE ZINKY


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