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Post subject: Frontman 212R Upgrade Parts Please
Posted: Tue Mar 01, 2011 9:26 am
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I'm a nubee when it comes to Fender FR's, apparently missed out reading the negative reviews when I opted to buy a "like new" used FR 212R. I just read the posts re: the Frontman 65R and I have ALL the exact same problems:
- extremely pathetic excuse for "Reverb" even maxed out on "10";
- both volume knobs / pots EXPLODE to high decibels (from total silence to super LOUD...) between "1" and "2"; AND...
- the tone / EQ depth, range and response are anemic - very disappointing.
Of course -- like a naive nubee -- I saw the "Fender" name, trusted the seller's description and "integrity," and bought the thing "AS-IS." So, I got exactly what I deserve and paid for.

In any case -- IF I'm going to salvage this thing to where I can enjoy it or resell it with a clear conscience -- exactly where can I find the "better quality" replacement parts for a Frontman 212R --i.e. the volume pots, reverb accutronic unit (?), etc. Speakers are easy enough to find, it's the volume pots that are the main problem. Tone depth and range will probably have to be dealt with via new speakers and a pedal.
If forum rules forbid direct referencing to vendors, can anyone atleast drop some brandnames of fully compatible replacement pots, reverb unit . . . ?
I can do the work. I just don't now exactly what I'm looking for. Thanks.


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Post subject: Re: Frontman 212R Upgrade Parts Please
Posted: Tue Mar 01, 2011 11:02 am
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Trying to mod a solid state amp beyond changing speakers is a waste of time in my opinion. You can't easily swap solid state components like you can tubes to get a different tone. If you are really intent on changing something, try different speakers. If that doesn't work and there is nothing wrong with the amp, just sell it and buy something that sounds better to you. Conscience is not a factor as long as you haven't damaged the amp. What sounds like crap to you may sound like angels singing to someone else.

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Post subject: Re: Frontman 212R Upgrade Parts Please
Posted: Thu Mar 03, 2011 8:55 am
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** note**
remember:FM/frotnman21R are the same unit!
vol issue no problem:solidstate vol/gain controls are linear taper (fender use)
replace with same value audio taper.this will give more control over the low vl end. remember "10" on the dial is still"10" how we get there is a matter of choice
voicing...(this is a std tone stack in the cln chn experiment)swap out C5(.47) to 1uf,bass pot to 100K,experiment with cap values.
mid:(C6)try a .15uf
treble ; try increasing the pot to 100K ,more resistance to gnd(the tone stack principal),the greater the seperation and less bleed-thru. the caps/pot values are diff for SS circuits than tube due to the signal voltage level and designer choice for the EQ shelving THEY think is best. email me @ dtmole@cccomm.net
i have a 212R that i made into a head unit! lots a things you can do to the OD an EQ if you dont min pulling it apart.
iv'e modded rocpro/performer(same/same) ,deluxe 112plus,BJrs,devilles and so on.


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Post subject: Re: Frontman 212R Upgrade Parts Please
Posted: Thu Mar 03, 2011 10:37 am
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Often thought about putting my Performer 650 into a head cabinet. Installed tilt-back legs on it a few years back. At least it "looks cool" now. Haven't played it in quite a while because I've fallen back in love with tubes.

Art


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Post subject: Re: Frontman 212R Upgrade Parts Please
Posted: Thu Mar 03, 2011 10:59 am
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?? how about adding another pair of output transistors ..just parallel wiring!...thats rihgt ...thats a rocpro 1000??? LOL


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Post subject: Re: Frontman 212R Upgrade Parts Please
Posted: Thu Mar 03, 2011 11:11 am
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Probably because, to my ears, I don't have much use for the drive channel anyhow. I cut my teeth on Twin Reverbs in the 60's. I would rather get my overdrive from Hot Rod Dlx (not the "more drive"), Deluxe Reverbs, and 60'sBassman amps.

That being said, for what I paid for the Performer 650 back in 94, it's an awesome little amp that actually has some pretty good tone on the clean channel (for a solid state amp.)

Art


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Post subject: Re: Frontman 212R Upgrade Parts Please
Posted: Thu Mar 03, 2011 11:24 am
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email me for the details on your htrd dlx...got extensive files on this unit and have done lot of the mods!


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Post subject: Re: Frontman 212R Upgrade Parts Please
Posted: Thu Mar 03, 2011 11:42 am
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It's a HRDlx III with the correct volume and treble pots and sounds pretty good right now. But who knows, may want to tweak it later on. :)

Art


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Post subject: Re: Frontman 212R Upgrade Parts Please
Posted: Thu Mar 03, 2011 1:15 pm
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Thanks for ALL the replies so far, and thanks Art1, jeffo46 and donny 911 for giving me much to consider. I know the benefit of external pedals and processors, but I will likely end up tweaking the thing one step at a time. The volume pot's really do have to go. I might tweak the voicing, or go with an EQ pedal. We'll see. Eminence speakers look like a good option, too . . .


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Post subject: Re: Frontman 212R Upgrade Parts Please
Posted: Thu Mar 03, 2011 2:56 pm
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I have an FM100H, which I think is the head version of the FM212. I've owned it for several years, and have experienced none of the problems you describe. I did replace the little reverb tank with a 4 series Accutronics, (4EB2C1B), and I like it a lot better.
I should say I only use the clean channel on mine.


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Post subject: Re: Frontman 212R Upgrade Parts Please
Posted: Thu Mar 03, 2011 3:22 pm
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just for info sake: FM and Frontman are the same unit...just renamed/pkging
modify the od circuit to a traditional opamp od pedal gives that channel better tone...IMO
i put a toggle switch to go from LEDs to diodes on the more drive select. i got rid of that crisscross diode arrangement!. easy fix. jumper R26(10K) ,it pre-gains that opamp so even at "0" you are over driving...mod allows for a louder cln 2nd chan.(+ make R27[pot] a 1meg audio...typ value in ODpedals) insane od potential!
key resistor in reverb section:R58(27K); increase=loweramp vol/greater reverb effect
decrease=higher amp vol/ lesser reverb effect...how cool! *R34:use audio taper pot for smoother roll-on of vol. ..if you never have it up all the way;use a smaller value pot(less overall gain,but more control over the whole range.


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Post subject: Re: Frontman 212R Upgrade Parts Please
Posted: Thu Mar 03, 2011 5:35 pm
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The amount of time and money you will spend modifying a SS, PCB based amp would be better put to buying a decent tube amp. Sell the 212R and buy something that sounds better.

For the record, I own both a Frontman 25R (Eminence Ragin Cajin speaker) and Blues Deluxe Reissue (upgraded tubes), both of which sound fantastic and have no problems what-so-ever.

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Post subject: Re: Frontman 212R Upgrade Parts Please
Posted: Thu Mar 03, 2011 6:07 pm
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i will agree with on both of those amps(own a htrd dvl so i can relate) i like JJ teslas' in mine. the 25r has decent od chan and loud enough for coffee house venues. most people don't realize that the hotrod deluxe and devilles are just "completed versions " of the blues deluxe/devilles...making use of the unused 1/2 of the #2 12AX7 ...the devilles running 42volts higher on the output making them the louder of the set... drawback on the blues delux and devilles(eary ones at least); do not have the adjustable bias.


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Post subject: Re: Frontman 212R Upgrade Parts Please
Posted: Thu Mar 03, 2011 7:39 pm
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I'm not sure why it's this way but for some reason the Frontman 25R has a much better sounding reverb than the more expensive 212R. I gave my son-in-law a Frontman 25R for Christmas and it seemed like a pretty nice little amp with decent reverb. A friend has a 212R and the reverb is very thin sounding and terrible above about 3. However you may have seen my response on the FM65R thread regarding a Rajun Cajun speaker upgrade and a Boss FDR-1 reverb pedal. Saw a guy in a blues band with that setup and he sounded really good. I would either get rid of the amp or only invest in the speaker upgrade and reverb pedal. Anything more and you're wasting your hard earned money on an amp that's never going to be really great.


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Post subject: Re: Frontman 212R Upgrade Parts Please
Posted: Thu Mar 03, 2011 7:58 pm
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just compare the reverb section of the 25r and duplicate it on the 212...
got my 212 on ebay real cheap $45 for the chassis..minor ship damage so its fun to experiment with. i have some aftermarket reverb driver PCBs w/tanks that i have used on the fender chamion 600...THAT is the best sounding reverb ever...you'd choke if i told you what i pd for the sets.. modded my buddys' 600...+ it has a full tone stack and presence control! the reverb addition took less than 15min.
email me and i'll send u pics of some of my work...just for fun.
many yrs ago a modded a cheap casio kybrd and gave it 5sub octave capability!...had to have it! LOL


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