It is currently Tue Mar 17, 2020 5:31 am

All times are UTC - 7 hours



Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 6 posts ] 
Author Message
Post subject: BDRI Tube Experiments
Posted: Wed Feb 16, 2011 11:41 pm
Offline
Rock Star
Rock Star

Joined: Mon Apr 05, 2010 2:37 pm
Posts: 8708
Location: Natural Bridge, Virginia
I thought I would try a little tube swapping with my BDRI to see if I could improve on it's (already great) tone.

I had previously installed the Eurotubes "Blues" tubeset for the BD/BDRI. It consists of all JJtubes: a 12AX7 in V1, 12AT7 in V2, balanced 12AX7 in V3, and 6L6GCs in V4/5 (Sorry, I can never remember the European tube names). This set has a nice low-gain "Bluesy" tone. Very smooth sounding with just a hint of breakup.

Anyway, I thought I would try a 12AX7 back in V2 and a balanced 12AT7 in V3, so I bought a balanced 12AT7 from Eurotubes, put it in V3 and put the balanced 12AX7 from V3 into V2. It sounded good, but not significantly better than the basic "Blues" tubeset. So I decided I would swap things back. But before I did, I decided to leave the balanced 12AT7 in V3 and put the 12AT7 from the "Blues" set back into V2. That was the ticket: slightly lower gain, very smooth tone, no peaky highs. It sounds great. Definitely gonna keep this setup for awhile at least, if not permanently.

The way I use the amp is I set the volume in the clean channel and the gain and master controls in the drive channel for a clean tone at equal levels. I set the EQ on the amp for my Strat with Fender SCNs and plug into input #1. I plug my two humbucker equipped guitars into input #2 which results in a pretty close volume match. The two humbucker equipped guitars have much greater bass response than the SCNs, I switch to the drive channel for them. This channel rolls off the bass slightly and makes the bass less bloated sounding.

Since both channels are essentially "clean" I use a modded Boss OD-3 set up for best perfomance with the SCNs and a modded Boss BD-2 for the two humbucker equipped guitars for my dirt.

This configration sounds great to my ears. It also has me toying with the idea of putting in a 12AY7 or 5751 in V1. Where does it all end? :lol:

_________________
Bill

Image


Top
Profile
Fender Play Winter Sale 2020
Post subject: Re: BDRI Tube Experiments
Posted: Thu Feb 17, 2011 9:17 am
Offline
Rock Icon
Rock Icon
User avatar

Joined: Tue Jun 29, 2010 1:20 pm
Posts: 9640
Location: Indiana
Cool bluesky636! And I say that it doesn't ever have to end....well, until....you know. :cry: It seems that I'm constantly trying something different, with tubes, mods, speakers, connections, etc. I am probably happier tinkering with something, than I am just playing, but there's room for both. I am interested to hear how it sounds with the lower gain preamp tubes in all three spots. I thought about a 12AT7 in V1 and V2, but I'm really enjoying the sound with the GT 12AX7-C in all three preamp spots, which is kind of the opposite of the low gain tubes. You should try these if you get the chance sometime, they really made the drive channel sound great for bluesy driven sound, close to a 6V6 kind of breakup sound.

Have you done any Plate voltage range checks while adjusting the bias yet? This is great, I feel that I'm tinkering by proxy, thanks! :D

_________________
---> "The amp should be SWITCHED OFF AND UNPLUGGED before you do this!" <---

Por favor, disculpe mi español, no se llega a la práctica con mucha frecuencia.


Top
Profile
Post subject: Re: BDRI Tube Experiments
Posted: Thu Feb 17, 2011 1:53 pm
Offline
Rock Star
Rock Star

Joined: Mon Apr 05, 2010 2:37 pm
Posts: 8708
Location: Natural Bridge, Virginia
shimmilou wrote:
Cool bluesky636! And I say that it doesn't ever have to end....well, until....you know. :cry: It seems that I'm constantly trying something different, with tubes, mods, speakers, connections, etc. I am probably happier tinkering with something, than I am just playing, but there's room for both. I am interested to hear how it sounds with the lower gain preamp tubes in all three spots. I thought about a 12AT7 in V1 and V2, but I'm really enjoying the sound with the GT 12AX7-C in all three preamp spots, which is kind of the opposite of the low gain tubes. You should try these if you get the chance sometime, they really made the drive channel sound great for bluesy driven sound, close to a 6V6 kind of breakup sound.

Have you done any Plate voltage range checks while adjusting the bias yet? This is great, I feel that I'm tinkering by proxy, thanks! :D


I tried a 12AT7 in V1 with a 12AX7 in V2 and V3 and did not like it. Too sterile sounding. In the BDRI, a 12AT7 in V2 sounds great even though some people advise against using one for anything other than PI/driver duties. The S/N ratio seems to be improved with a 12AX7 in V1 and 12AT7s in V2 and V3.

No, I have not had a chance to measure plate voltage as the bias changes. Maybe this weekend.

_________________
Bill

Image


Top
Profile
Post subject: Re: BDRI Tube Experiments - Update
Posted: Fri Feb 25, 2011 11:35 am
Offline
Rock Star
Rock Star

Joined: Mon Apr 05, 2010 2:37 pm
Posts: 8708
Location: Natural Bridge, Virginia
Well, I received my JAN Phillips 5751 from the Tube Store yesterday (Or was it the Tube Depot? Hell getting old. LOL) and installed it last night. Installing it was a bit of a chore at it seems that the pins on the 5751 may be slightly larger or for some reason "stickier" than the pins on the JJ tubes. It was really hard getting it into the tube socket and I had to be very careful.

As a quick summary, here are the tube configurations I have gone through and my impressions of each one:

1. Stock - GT 12AX7s in V!, V2, and V3. GT 6L6Rs (rebranded Sovtek 5881s) in V4 and V5. Very harsh and spiky sounding. Clean channel Ok if the volume kept low but then harder on the ears as it is turned up. 6L6Rs sounded horrible when biased at anything above 70 mV. They came from the factory set to 64 mV.

2. Replaced stock tubes with Eurotubes "Blues" tubeset. JJ 12AX7 in V1, JJ 12AT7 in V2, Balanced JJ 12AX7 in V3, and JJ 6L6GCs in V4 and V5. Harshness and spikyness gone. Much smoother and "bluesier" sounding. Clean channel can be turned up higher before breakup occurs and sounds much cleaner until then. The Drive channel must be turned up higher to get any sort of drive out of it, which is Ok with me. See my original post for how I use the Drive channel. The JJ power tubes sound great biased anywhere between 80 and 83 mV.

3. Swapped the tubes in V1 and V2 to hear how it sounded. WIth the JJ 12AT7 in V1 and the JJ 12AX7 in V2, the sound became very sterile. The S/N ratio was better but things sounded "too clean". I swapped the tubes back.

4. Replaced the balanced JJ 12AX7 in V3 with a balanced JJ 12AT7. Overall gain decreased even more (which is great for me as I just play at home and don't need ear splitting volume). S/N ratio seemed to improve a little more. No real change in tone from that in 2 above.

5. Replaced the JJ 12AT7 in V2 with the JJ 12AX7 from V3. Gain increased slightly and S/N ratio seemed to get a little worse. Tone seemed to be a little harder. The drive level in the Drive channel increased slightly but not significantly. The amp did not sound as good as in 2 or 4 so I put the JJ 12AT7 back in V2.

6. Replaced the JJ 12AX7 in V1 with the 5751. Replaced the JJ 12AT7 in V2 with the 12AX7 from V1. Kept the balanced JJ 12AT7 in V3. This appears to be the best combination (for me at least). The S/N ratio appears to be the best of all tube combinations. Overall tone is very smooth and sounds slightly improved over 2 and 4. The Clean channel has a really nice "Blues" sound to it, especially with the neck SCN in my Strat. Still experimenting with the Drive channel.

So, my final tube configuration (Yeah. Right. :lol: ) is:

V1 - JAN Phillips 5751, V2 - JJ 12AX7, V3 - JJ balanced 12AT7, V4 & V5 - JJ 6L6GCs biased at 83 mV. Gonna keep it like this for a few weeks before thinking about any other changes. I think a 12AY7 in V1 might be too low a gain for my use. A 5751 in V1 and V2 might be interesting, but not sure if it would make any real difference.

I still need to check my plate voltage at different bias levels, but it is not a real high priority. Currently about 406 VDC at a bias of 83 mV (about 36 mA plate current per tube). The output tubes sound really good as is.

I did have one fright last night while playing. Suddenly the switching between channels and turning reverb on and off from the foot pedal stopped working. I paniced, concerned I had cracked a solder joint trying to get the 5171 installed. I remembered reading about this issue. I did a quick double check of everything and discovered that I had kicked the cable between the footswitch and the amp out of the footswitch socket. Whew! Crises over, I went back to grooving on the sound of the BDRI. :lol:

Edit: if you look at the picture of the tube, that is exactly what the pins of my 5751 looked like. The pins on all the JJ tubes are nice shiny silver. Is that a coating on the 5751 pins I should have cleaned off before installing them? I ran out of cleaner.

http://tubedepot.com/nos-5751jan.html

_________________
Bill

Image


Top
Profile
Post subject: Re: BDRI Tube Experiments
Posted: Fri Feb 25, 2011 4:51 pm
Offline
Rock Icon
Rock Icon
User avatar

Joined: Tue Jun 29, 2010 1:20 pm
Posts: 9640
Location: Indiana
Nice reviews bluesky636, great job on the descriptions, I feel like I can almost hear the tubes myself. Sounds like I'm going to have to get a couple of 5751s for testing. I like the "final" combination that you settled on, and I agree that a 5751 in V1 and V2 may sound good also, might try that. :)

I don't think that there is anything on the tube pins to clean off, it may just be how the pins are aligned, that makes it harder to insert, as sometimes they are bent a little differently, or maybe they are just a little thicker pins. :idea:

_________________
---> "The amp should be SWITCHED OFF AND UNPLUGGED before you do this!" <---

Por favor, disculpe mi español, no se llega a la práctica con mucha frecuencia.


Top
Profile
Post subject: Re: BDRI Tube Experiments
Posted: Fri Feb 25, 2011 10:59 pm
Offline
Rock Star
Rock Star

Joined: Mon Apr 05, 2010 2:37 pm
Posts: 8708
Location: Natural Bridge, Virginia
shimmilou wrote:
Nice reviews bluesky636, great job on the descriptions, I feel like I can almost hear the tubes myself. Sounds like I'm going to have to get a couple of 5751s for testing. I like the "final" combination that you settled on, and I agree that a 5751 in V1 and V2 may sound good also, might try that. :)

I don't think that there is anything on the tube pins to clean off, it may just be how the pins are aligned, that makes it harder to insert, as sometimes they are bent a little differently, or maybe they are just a little thicker pins. :idea:


I just spent several hours playing her tonight and I must say that I am very pleased and impressed with the tone. Very sweet and smooth. Great Blues tone using either my Strat with SCNs or my other two guitars with GFS Humbuckers. I currently have a Monte Allums modded Boss OD-3 (used with the SCNs) and BD-2 (used with the Humbuckers) that I will be replacing with a Fulltone FullDrive 2 MOSFET (Ordered from Pro Guitar Shop which should be here by the middle of next week). I can't wait to hear how the FD2 sounds through the BDRI.

_________________
Bill

Image


Top
Profile
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 6 posts ] 

All times are UTC - 7 hours

Fender Play Winter Sale 2020

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 2 guests


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum

Search for:
Jump to: