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Post subject: Ceramic speakers vs' Alnico?????
Posted: Sat Feb 12, 2011 9:19 pm
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Hey guys, so a man walks into his personal music store and asks the man at the counter "Can you build me an 8ohm 80 watt speaker enclosure and model it after the Hot Rod 12 inch speaker enclosure and make it to spec?"
"Yes, the owner replied we can build a box and put the exact speaker in it and you can choose the type of tolex cover and grill cover you like."
"great!" the man replies
"But........"
and thus the journey for the perfect tone begins.
He took this man to the back where he showed him a cheaper solution. it was a JBL 120 watt 8 ohm Alnico Speaker. Not wanting to sound like a complete idiot the man listened to his key points about how better the Alnico speaker is compared to a ceramic Speaker? Never knew there was a difference thought the man.
as the owner continued. it was stated that the A fender HRD with an Alnico Speaker will sound a lot louder than a HRD with the enclosure and a 100 times better! also with a humorous remark that the speaker mod will more or less turn the amp into a fender Band Master Combo. Funny that man laugh to himself Never heard of a Fender Band Master until today. Was this music store owner tooting his own horn or trying to make a sale. no, He's not that kind of guy, I know him, he's a good man.
So now I was starting to wonder Should I put an Alnico in my fender HRD? will it really sound louder and better than a HRD and Enclosure setup? Can anyone shine some light on this?

Ladies and Gentleman My name is Michael and I'm a Tone Junkie.


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Post subject: Re: Ceramic speakers vs' Alnico?????
Posted: Sat Feb 12, 2011 9:58 pm
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Alnico and Ceramic magnet speakers have their own "flavor." Cone material and design also plays a big role in tone, breakup, overtones. And it's the user that should determine what tastes he likes. (kinda like oral... aw nevermind!). :P

Other than trying the various speakers for yourself (which can get $$$) or it's hard to find a dealer that has same cabs loaded with different speakers--- why not start by looking at Weber's Speakers site. His desciption of various models pretty much is spot on (at least in my experience with the many types of Webers that I've used).

Click on the Series that interests you (I like the Vintage line) and read the description of the various models/magnet types/cones/etc...

https://taweber.powweb.com/weber/


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Post subject: Re: Ceramic speakers vs' Alnico?????
Posted: Sat Feb 12, 2011 11:58 pm
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BMW2002Ti wrote:
Alnico and Ceramic magnet speakers have their own "flavor." Cone material and design also plays a big role in tone, breakup, overtones. And it's the user that should determine what tastes he likes.


Absolutely!

And it's not always true that the alnico speaker will be more efficient than an otherwise-equivalent ceramic type. The JBL alnico 12 the gentlemen mentioned has a factory-spec SPL of 100 dB (that's 100 decibels from 1 watt of input, measured on-axis at 1 meter from the center of the speaker cone). Eminence makes several ceramic 12's with a spec of 101 dB -- a nearly insignificant difference but nevertheless measureable. Many of the vintage alnico Jensens were also less efficient than their ceramic counterparts (P12Q vs C12Q, etc). As mentioned, let your ears and your playing style guide your choice.

As far as the theory that a HRD with a 1 x12 extension cabinet will be the sonic equivalent of a vintage 2 x 12 Bandmaster, I shall limit my response to one word......

PFFFFFFFFFFFFFT!

:mrgreen:

Arjay

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"Here's why reliability is job one: A great sounding amp that breaks down goes from being a favorite piece of gear to a useless piece of crap in less time than it takes to read this sentence." -- BRUCE ZINKY


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Post subject: Re: Ceramic speakers vs' Alnico?????
Posted: Sun Feb 13, 2011 10:06 pm
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arjay, how the h3ll do you know so much when it comes to this stuff?
every time i read one of your replies i learn something new. it usually something i
have no idea what i just learned lol. your a valuable asset to this community sir.

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"The good thing is in a club situation, most of the patrons are trashed and really can't tell the difference."


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Post subject: Re: Ceramic speakers vs' Alnico?????
Posted: Sun Feb 13, 2011 10:26 pm
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Thanks, WCJ.

I guess I just picked up a few tips during my 45-year "journey" with Fender.

Arjay

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"Here's why reliability is job one: A great sounding amp that breaks down goes from being a favorite piece of gear to a useless piece of crap in less time than it takes to read this sentence." -- BRUCE ZINKY


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Post subject: Re: Ceramic speakers vs' Alnico?????
Posted: Sun Feb 13, 2011 10:34 pm
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wow, 45 yrs. one of these days i need to share a story with you via PM.
i bet you would be interested. :wink:

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63supro
"The good thing is in a club situation, most of the patrons are trashed and really can't tell the difference."


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Post subject: Re: Ceramic speakers vs' Alnico?????
Posted: Mon Feb 14, 2011 6:59 am
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Retroverbial wrote:
Thanks, WCJ.

I guess I just picked up a few tips during my 45-year "journey" with Fender.

Arjay

Hey man,I've been along that long journey also...and I always seem to learn from you. :)


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Post subject: Re: Ceramic speakers vs' Alnico?????
Posted: Mon Feb 14, 2011 10:18 am
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Rebelsoul wrote:
Hey man,I've been along that long journey also...and I always seem to learn from you. :)


As I from you, sir.

That's what makes this forum so enlightening!

:mrgreen:

Arjay

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"Here's why reliability is job one: A great sounding amp that breaks down goes from being a favorite piece of gear to a useless piece of crap in less time than it takes to read this sentence." -- BRUCE ZINKY


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Post subject: Re: Ceramic speakers vs' Alnico?????
Posted: Mon Feb 14, 2011 5:08 pm
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That Arjay guy sure knows his stuff! :wink:

I've tried a few speakers in my DRRI recently, 12s and 15s, alnico and ceramic... with Arjay's help I learned a lot about what works for me and what doesn't.

The alnico JBL (D130F) was nowhere near as loud as the ceramic Eminence I tried. The Eminence Legend 1518 is rated at 102.2 db, the Eminence Big Ben is rated at 101.5 db. Both were louder than the JBLs I tried with the Legend being the loudest and cleanest. I also tried an EV SRO 15, also ceramic, which I believe is rated around 103 db, it was as loud as the Legend and probably the best sounding IMO, but WAY too heavy.

I found that the ceramics were always cleaner or clearer sounding and usually brighter, but the alnicos had a sweeter tone, specially the highs, but didn't do as good of a job with the low frequencies. This was my experience with both 12" and 15" alnicos and ceramics.

For now the Big Ben is staying in the amp, it is not as bright as the Legend and has a nice early breakup... it keeps getting better as I break it in. Both single coil and humbuckers sound wonderful through it!


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