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Post subject: Breaking in a hot rod deville 212......
Posted: Mon Jan 31, 2011 10:14 pm
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Hey people,

So I just bought my first tube amp just wanted to see if anyone else on here owns one, ( deville hot rod 212 3)I dont know to much about tube amps got a really good deal on it brand new wanted to see if anyone can share what they like dislike about the amp...I play ramones style punkrock the amp sounds great but i need a little more crunch,and i was told that the amp needs to be broken in what is the best way about doing at that?


Thanks alot


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Post subject: Re: Breaking in a hot rod deville 212......
Posted: Mon Jan 31, 2011 10:37 pm
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They are loud!
If it is not one of the new III series the thing reaches maximum volume by the time the dial is at 3 or 4 due to the wrong pot type being used for the volume knobs.
If it is one of the III''s that has been fixed !

Most find the clean channel is clean!
But the drive and more drive channels are not so good, someone else here called them fizz and more fizz which is about right.

Be a bit careful with the input jacks and when fooling with the tubes everything is surface mount to the boards and a hard yank can cause them to separate.
Which means opening it up and soldering or taking it in for repair.

You may want to check and set the bias on the power tubes, they tend to come set cold from the factory.
If you are not comfortable around fat caps with high voltage let a amp tech do it, but it is not difficult to do yourself
Properly set bias does improve on the tone of the thing.

Do enjoy your new amp!

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Post subject: Re: Breaking in a hot rod deville 212......
Posted: Mon Jan 31, 2011 10:39 pm
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tacopuncher wrote:
i was told that the amp needs to be broken in what is the best way about doing at that?


Actually, it's the speakers that require a break-in period.

The only way to accomplish that is to play them. Give them 20 to 25 hours, and it doesn't have to be "concert hall" volume -- just enough power to get the cone and the suspension moving to wring out the stiffness.

You might also consider having the output tube bias checked, and adjusted, if necessary -- these amps leave the factory deliberately biased cold to extend the life of the tubes. But overall tone suffers as a result.

HTH

Arjay

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Post subject: Re: Breaking in a hot rod deville 212......
Posted: Mon Jan 31, 2011 10:59 pm
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Brand new series III.... just got it tonight it sounds great..well its a def upgrade from the frontman 25 i was playing....Im playing thru a epiphone wilshire. What would a fair price be to bias the tubes?I hear that term being used alot what does it do for the tubes? also the sales person gave me a aurolux gramma do these things really work?


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Post subject: Re: Breaking in a hot rod deville 212......
Posted: Mon Jan 31, 2011 11:18 pm
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Bias refers to the amount of DC idle current flowing through the output tubes without a load present. Under-biasing results in the tubes running cold, which usually results in a sterile clinical tone with very brittle break-up. Over-biasing causes the tubes to burn hot, which diminishes the amp's clean headroom and generates intermodulation distortion and odd-order harmonics -- neither useful for that classic compressed overdrive tone we all love. Expect to pay $75 to $100 for a competent tech to set things right.

HTH

Arjay

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Post subject: Re: Breaking in a hot rod deville 212......
Posted: Tue Feb 01, 2011 7:41 am
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peterp wrote:
...everything is surface mount to the boards...


FYI, there are absolutely no "surface mount" parts in the amp. Surface mount is a completely different technology and completely different parts. Surface mount is just that, no through holes on the PC board, and can use hot air to melt the solder. And, contrary to the misinformation being spread about these amps, the output tube sockets are mounted to the chassis, always have been. You may mean "PC board mounted", as the input jacks are mounted to the PC board. And yes, you want to be careful as the jacks are plastic and mounted to the board. :idea:

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Post subject: Re: Breaking in a hot rod deville 212......
Posted: Tue Feb 01, 2011 8:27 am
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shimmilou wrote:
peterp wrote:
...everything is surface mount to the boards...


FYI, there are absolutely no "surface mount" parts in the amp. Surface mount is a completely different technology and completely different parts. Surface mount is just that, no through holes on the PC board, and can use hot air to melt the solder. And, contrary to the misinformation being spread about these amps, the output tube sockets are mounted to the chassis, always have been. You may mean "PC board mounted", as the input jacks are mounted to the PC board. And yes, you want to be careful as the jacks are plastic and mounted to the board. :idea:


Yeah, that's why when you wiggle the tubes, the board moves. :lol: They are technically mounted to the board. They are not solidly mounted to the chassis. There are no flying leads from the tube sockets to the board. :roll:

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Post subject: Re: Breaking in a hot rod deville 212......
Posted: Tue Feb 01, 2011 8:45 am
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63supro,

The output tube sockets are mounted to the chassis, nice and solid, always have been. The preamp tube sockets are mounted to the PC board via metal shafts and screws. Neither the output tubes, nor the preamp tubes, use the PC board connections as the mount, they both have shafts for mounting to take the pressure off of the connections. Yes, maybe a better way would be to use flexible wires instead of the solid connections, but the fact remains, the output tubes sockets are mounted to the chassis, period, end of story. :lol: If you were able to move the sockets solder joints on your amp by "wiggling" the tubes, then you had some screws loose. Mine don't move like that, and they never will as long as the screws are tight. :idea:

And, once again, this is the Deville, not the Deluxe. I have a Deville, and you?

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Post subject: Re: Breaking in a hot rod deville 212......
Posted: Tue Feb 01, 2011 9:05 am
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No sir, that's how you can find the fractures joints. The tube sockets are connected to the board. I'm not going to argue semantics and technicalities. The sockets are board mounted and will move the board if you wiggle them. It's a really fragile and heat transferring setup.

You may be the one with the screw loose. The tube sockets on my HRDlx were not solidly mounted at all. Maybe yours is as it's 15 years old. Mine was not. It was actually the first experience I had with a tube socket moving at all. They are not considered chassis mounted tube sockets by anyone but you. They are attached directly to the board with thin strips of cheesy metal from the tube sockets. You love pissing me off don't you.

On mine, the tube sockets were mounted to the board which was held in place by the screws on the retaining rings that screwed into the board standoffs. :shock:

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Post subject: Re: Breaking in a hot rod deville 212......
Posted: Tue Feb 01, 2011 9:17 am
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Yes you are correct,I did use the wrong term!
But the intent was the same, a hard yank and they can break the solder connection.

shimmilou wrote:
peterp wrote:
...everything is surface mount to the boards...

You may mean "PC board mounted", as the input jacks are mounted to the PC board. And yes, you want to be careful as the jacks are plastic and mounted to the board. :idea:

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Post subject: Re: Breaking in a hot rod deville 212......
Posted: Tue Feb 01, 2011 11:01 am
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Hmmmm,...

I think I can see what you are saying about "wiggling" them, with the solid connectors between the socket and board transferring any movement at all from the tubes to the circuit connections on the board. I can see someone cranking the socket hard enough sideways to do some damage to the already poor solder joints, even though the socket is chassis mounted. If the solder joints are corrected to begin with, wiggling them will no longer be a problem. I agree, wires between would have been better, no stress transfer to the board. The wires would probably have to be done by hand though, cost more. The HRds aren't exactly the top of the line amps. :o The preamp tube sockets aren't mounted to the chassis, the way that the output tubes are, but the preamp tubes are board mounted, with the board held to the chassis via the standoffs, which is strong for the preamp tubes. Again, I agree that it could be better, but it's not quite the disaster that it's made out to be. Like we have discussed before, I touched up my solder joints at the beginning, as I knew that poor solder joints are a problem in all mass-produced electronics, and has been for a long time, what with wave soldering, and now the absence of lead in the solder. Hey, I get your point, the HRDlx wasn't rugged enough for your use, but many of us that own a HRDlx don't think that it is quite the train-wreck that yours was. And most of the problems that you have had with yours (Ht Rod Deluxe), specifically the heat from the 5 watt resistors and the switching circuit issues, are not applicable to the Deville, the circuit is different.

Oh, I know that I have a screw loose, but my amp screws are tight, and solder joints are great. :lol: Here are my chassis mounted output tube sockets.

Image
Image

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Post subject: Re: Breaking in a hot rod deville 212......
Posted: Tue Feb 01, 2011 11:10 am
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The socket is firmly mounted to the board not the socket. It's also got to be one of the worst tube mounting systems in the industry allowing flex to the flimsy board. You don't really need to "crank" anything. Just wiggling the tube from side to side will do it. My amp tech showed me this the first time I brought it in. He's been my tech for 25 years and has been an authorized Fender, Marshall, Ampeg and others since the 1960's.

Here is an example of a chassis mounted tube socket
Image


Image

Notice the socket flange is on the outside of the chassis where it has the most support.

Big difference.

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Post subject: Re: Breaking in a hot rod deville 212......
Posted: Tue Feb 01, 2011 2:13 pm
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I agree with shimmilou. I have removed and replaced all of the tubes in my BDRI several times and have experienced no movement of the tube sockets or PCB.

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Post subject: Re: Breaking in a hot rod deville 212......
Posted: Tue Feb 01, 2011 2:28 pm
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You have to be looking for it. You usually don't need to remove the back of the amp to change the tubes.The tube sockets are not really chassis mounted and are pretty cheap sockets to boot. Like I said and you don't have to believe me, those screws are supporting the boards standoffs more than the actual socket.


I'm done with this post.

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Post subject: Re: Breaking in a hot rod deville 212......
Posted: Tue Feb 01, 2011 3:26 pm
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63supro wrote:
You have to be looking for it. .


I have. Never seen it.

63supro wrote:
You usually don't need to remove the back of the amp to change the tubes..


Well, maybe that was your problem. Your "tech" left the back on and grabbed the top of the tube and wiggled it like crazy to remove it. Me, I remove the back and grab the power tube socket with one hand and depress the spring holders with the other. Tube slides out with minimal wiggling. On the pramp tubes I grab them as close to the chassis as I can. Again, no problem removing them. Reverse the procedure to install them. Piece of cake.

63supro wrote:
The tube sockets are not really chassis mounted and are pretty cheap sockets to boot. Like I said and you don't have to believe me, those screws are supporting the boards standoffs more than the actual socket..


I've looked at it closely. Seems sturdy enough to me.

63supro wrote:
I'm done with this post.


Probably a good thing. The problem is, you were so dissatisfied with your HRD that whenever anyone has a question about one, you tell everyone what a POS your's was (and by extension, that they are all POS). Then when someone says that they have had no problem with their amp and that they are very happy with it, you claim they don't know what they are talking about. It all gets very tiresome.

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