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Post subject: JJ gold pin tubes disappoint...
Posted: Sat Jan 29, 2011 3:38 pm
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I got a USA HRD 410 a couple weeks ago.
Had Sovtec tubes in it.
Had great tone, but the volume pots were toast, so I got them replaced.
I also decided to replace the old tubes with a set of JJ gold pins.

God, what a disappointment!

The sovtecs had a nice crackle to them, and really got the slightly fuzzy, pillowy hendrix tone quite well.

The Spanish Castle magic tone, if you will...

With the JJ's in there, bias at about 68mv, this amp has endless headroom on the clean channel, which I don't really care about...but the drive channel just sounds like cardboard.
Way too harsh to even call it "drive".

I re-biased it up to about 77mv.
A little more crunch, but really just a fuzzy breakup.
The sustain is just wrong.

I'm using a walnut schecter strat w/duncan active hot strat pickups, so gain/tone from the guitar end is about as good as it can get.

I'm just curious who else has compared these tubes, and will these JJ's sound better after a long burn in?
Should I bump the bias up more?
Eurotubes recommends 80-90mv, but fender says around 70.
Quite the gap.

The amp has been on for like 3 days now...

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Post subject: Re: JJ gold pin tubes disappoint...
Posted: Sat Jan 29, 2011 4:26 pm
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We're talking the JJ Gold Pin 12AX7/ECC83's? First off, I think most "gold pin" newly made tubes is a marketing hype thing. Now if we were talking early 1960's Sylvania Gold 5751, that be a different issue... :D

The JJ-GP's are frame grid plate tubes. Kinda (a BIG kinda) like the famous Telefunken ECC803S. Frame grid is designed to reduce noise and take abuse, esp in military/industrial use. But, aren't really noted for tone or consumer use, in general.

I like Sovtek better (esp selected 12AX7LPS), the re-issued Tungsol 12AX7 (for more Fender-ish tone) and Mullard RI 12AX7 (for more Euro tone). All three are made in Russia. The Genalex RI 12AX7 are supposed to be pretty good. But for now, import of them has stopped & prices are very $$$$.

NOS US made 12AX7 (whether RCA, Sylvania, Raytheon, "made in USA" Tungsol, etc) outshine just about any Russian made 12AX7. At a price though. And NOS British long plate Mullards (Blackburn, UK), Dutch Philips/Amperex/Mazda or German Siemens/Valvo/TFK... well you know the story...

http://www.tubemongerlib.com/gallery2/d ... +-+USA.jpg


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Post subject: Re: JJ gold pin tubes disappoint...
Posted: Sat Jan 29, 2011 4:34 pm
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Yep, it's the ecc/6L6 full set.
Paid way too much for these.
I am just not impressed at all.

I'm thinking about putting the old sovtecs back in.
Sounded better.

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Post subject: Re: JJ gold pin tubes disappoint...
Posted: Sat Jan 29, 2011 4:38 pm
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Sounds like a good idea. JJ has had all kinds of QA issues in their recent productions. Someone on another board said that they are having one-too-many Vodka-breaks. :)

If you like JJ, try buying them from someone who tests them, not only for mA... but noise and tonal value (in other words in real-life amp situations & not just in a tube tester). It's worth the extra few bucks, in the long run.


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Post subject: Re: JJ gold pin tubes disappoint...
Posted: Sat Jan 29, 2011 5:16 pm
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Much experimentation in the near future.
I know this amp has the tone I want in there somewhere.....

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Post subject: Re: JJ gold pin tubes disappoint...
Posted: Sat Jan 29, 2011 5:33 pm
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Yeah, you'll hear and read a lot of ppl complaining about the Sovtek 12AX7LPS. They are long plates. And long plates can get noisy. But, if you buy from someone that selects the most quiet of his bunch, they can sound pretty darn good.

Funny, I find that tubes just on the verge of being microphonic often have the most lively and responsive tone. Not always, but often in gain stages. I know it's sacrilegious for some, even to mention this. But, if you ever get to "rolling tubes," see if you have the similar results. Often the quietest gain stage tubes (ones you can plunk on and there is no noise---such as some early 1990's Chinese tubes)--- have the deadest tone.


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Post subject: Re: JJ gold pin tubes disappoint...
Posted: Sat Jan 29, 2011 6:41 pm
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I just slapped the 3 sovtec 12ax7's back in there and left the JJ power tubes in there.
Bias at 77mv.

Completely different animal.

This amp completely sings right now.

Not perfect, but quite the improvement from just swapping those 3 tubes.

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Post subject: Re: JJ gold pin tubes disappoint...
Posted: Sat Jan 29, 2011 6:48 pm
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Very cool, indeed!

BTW: is that little blurb at the end of your posts true? I eagerly await your answer. "It's another Saturday night and I ain't got nobody..."


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Post subject: Re: JJ gold pin tubes disappoint...
Posted: Sun Jan 30, 2011 7:55 am
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You've just learned a lesson that advertisement sells inferior products based upon what Martian calls "infallible web dogma" or something similar.
I've swapped so many tubes over the years that I could do it in my sleep,and yep,I've fallen for the NOS vs. new production tube theories and super duper sonic delight products that are gaurondamteed to make you sound like the next best tone king.
Listen man,there are some great NOS tubes out there and some real dogs,and the same goes for the new tubes...what you're doing is what works,and when you buy more get the basic preamp tubes like Tung-Sol reissues or Mullards or JJs and try a few in different positions and see what sounds best...same goes for power tubes.


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Post subject: Re: JJ gold pin tubes disappoint...
Posted: Sun Jan 30, 2011 9:12 am
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Yeah, the ad boldly states: "The richest tone possible"

What bullshit.

More like,
"Harsh, clean spikes and no breakup under volume 9.
Like crunchy cardboard. MM-MM good. Phooey"

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Post subject: Re: JJ gold pin tubes disappoint...
Posted: Sun Jan 30, 2011 9:42 am
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BMW2002Ti wrote:
Very cool, indeed!

BTW: is that little blurb at the end of your posts true? I eagerly await your answer. "It's another Saturday night and I ain't got nobody..."


If it were true, I would have no time/need for the internet. 8)


Oh, BTW: The JJ's preamp tubes are also very noisy at idle. Just a crappy product IMO.

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Post subject: Re: JJ gold pin tubes disappoint...
Posted: Sun Jan 30, 2011 10:42 am
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flyinjw wrote:
I just slapped the 3 sovtec 12ax7's back in there...


Hi flyinjw,

Can you see the Sovtek label on your preamp tubes, and are they all the 12AX7WC? My HRDvl 4x10 sounds the best with the WCs, and so does my BJr, while my HRDlx sounds better with 12AX7WA in all three spots. Just curious which yours were. :?:

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Post subject: Re: JJ gold pin tubes disappoint...
Posted: Sun Jan 30, 2011 11:42 am
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They say
Fender
12ax79a(I think that's a 9)

Bright red lettering

on the back there is a very faint "sovtec"

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Post subject: Re: JJ gold pin tubes disappoint...
Posted: Sun Jan 30, 2011 12:19 pm
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Thanks flyinjw,

I think that the 9a refers to the socket configuration/wiring, and is on the Fender label. The Sovtek label is the original, before the Fender label was put on. Near the faint Sovtek on the back is where it will say 12AX7WA or 12AX7WC, and is what I was interested in. Don't worry about it if you can't see it, it can be difficult to view. I have to use a magnifier and move my tubes around at different light angles to see the lettering sometimes. :)

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Post subject: Re: JJ gold pin tubes disappoint...
Posted: Sun Jan 30, 2011 2:32 pm
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You can have good or bad part from each valve brand ! As you did, let your ear make the difference. 8)

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