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Post subject: solid state vs. effects pedals...
Posted: Thu Jan 27, 2011 4:09 pm
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Hi, new to the board and thought I would start with a question that I'm having trouble finding an answer to on the internet....

A Tube purist friend of mine and I got into a discussion over why he doesn't like my fender super champ xd and his remarks are to having a solid state digital preamp instead of all tube. My remarks are to the fact that he runs a TS9 tubescreamer in front of his blues junior and ask what is the difference?

The only information I have found is that effects pedals are not digital but analog but don't quite understand why that makes a difference to a tube purist. I could understand if someone was using a "tube" distortion pedal and playing a tube amp while saying solid state/digital sucks but don't get why analog makes everything ok?

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Post subject: Re: solid state vs. effects pedals...
Posted: Thu Jan 27, 2011 5:08 pm
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Don't expect a high level of objective responses on this forum. It has a number of "tube purists" who tend to be far more outspoken, rigid, and sometimes even intimidating in their viewpoints than solid state advocates and/or supporters. I say to each his own.

In the end,all that matters is hearing a sound or tone that you like, and secondarily if you're a performer, one that your audience likes.

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Post subject: Re: solid state vs. effects pedals...
Posted: Thu Jan 27, 2011 5:19 pm
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Hi ccgjag31,

You have a good point, both amps have tube output, so you get a better sound than ss output has. The main difference between the two amps that you mentioned is the preamp section. The "preamp" tube in your SCXD is a phase inverter necessary to drive two output tubes, and doesn't really have an influence on tone the way that 2 preamp and PI tubes do in the BJr. The preamp section in the SCXD being all solid state, will not distort in the same way as a tube preamp like the BJr when pushed with a distortion pedal. The musical qualities, and overdrive capability of a tube just can't quite be duplicated by ss, whether the ss is digital or analog, the ss can only get "close" to the tube sound. Your amp gives you a little of the tube amp flavor/power of the output section, while also having the convenience of the built in effects, with the ss preamp having influence on the tone in a different way than the all-tube preamp. :)

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Post subject: Re: solid state vs. effects pedals...
Posted: Thu Jan 27, 2011 6:25 pm
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I use both all-tube amps and 100% digital amp simulators. They each have their place in my arsenal.

I also use an overdrive pedal (a Fulltone OCD) in front of my all-tube amps. What happens is the extra power provided by the overdrive pedal actually overdrives the preamp tube(s) in the amp causing them to distort, too. That, to me, is a beautiful tone.


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Post subject: Re: solid state vs. effects pedals...
Posted: Thu Jan 27, 2011 6:40 pm
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ccgjag31 wrote:
Hi, new to the board and thought I would start with a question that I'm having trouble finding an answer to on the internet....

A Tube purist friend of mine and I got into a discussion over why he doesn't like my fender super champ xd and his remarks are to having a solid state digital preamp instead of all tube. My remarks are to the fact that he runs a TS9 tubescreamer in front of his blues junior and ask what is the difference?

The only information I have found is that effects pedals are not digital but analog but don't quite understand why that makes a difference to a tube purist. I could understand if someone was using a "tube" distortion pedal and playing a tube amp while saying solid state/digital sucks but don't get why analog makes everything ok?

thanks


Hi Welcome to the forum, Listen, its really all in the ear of the beholder... There are a Ga-zillian pros and cons for what your asking, just do what sounds great to you.

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Post subject: Re: solid state vs. effects pedals...
Posted: Thu Jan 27, 2011 6:54 pm
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Guitarist1983 wrote:
... I also use an overdrive pedal (a Fulltone OCD) in front of my all-tube amps. What happens is the extra power provided by the overdrive pedal actually overdrives the preamp tube(s) in the amp causing them to distort, too. That, to me, is a beautiful tone.


That's the popular theory among tube purists but the reality is 99% of so-called overdrive pedals do more than just boost the signal to the amp's input. They actually color the signal significantly. They differ from distortion pedals only in the WAY they color the signal. Many tube purists believe (or at least say they believe) quite a few ideas that simply aren't true. OD pedals do push the front end of the amp but they also add distortion that has nothing to do with the amp.

Not picking a fight. Just clarifying. There's a lot of bad info on the net and it leads the younglings astray.

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Post subject: Re: solid state vs. effects pedals...
Posted: Thu Jan 27, 2011 7:18 pm
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I've been playing for quite a few years now and swear by tube amps but it's really all smoke and mirrors. I heard a guy playing in a bar and was blown away by his tone, one of the best "live" rockin blues tones I've heard in a bar. Walked up to the stage on break and about crapped myself. I saw a Peavey Bandit with an 80's DOD compressor and chorus pedal with a microphone off axis about a foot from the grill. He was playing some kind of Peavey Falcon guitar with active pickups


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Post subject: Re: solid state vs. effects pedals...
Posted: Thu Jan 27, 2011 8:24 pm
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randini wrote:
I've been playing for quite a few years now and swear by tube amps but it's really all smoke and mirrors. I heard a guy playing in a bar and was blown away by his tone, one of the best "live" rockin blues tones I've heard in a bar. Walked up to the stage on break and about crapped myself. I saw a Peavey Bandit with an 80's DOD compressor and chorus pedal with a microphone off axis about a foot from the grill. He was playing some kind of Peavey Falcon guitar with active pickups


ccjag31, you ask what may be one of the most poignant questions I've read in here in quite some time (actually, truth be told, it's one I've pondered and wondered about too, hence the accolade). There's lots of excellent experience in here, so I'm sure this will get a thorough hearing. In essence, I also wonder how a pedal, all of them with microchips on a board generally (even the venerated TS808 and TS9, I believe), can not be considered a "solid state" effect on the chain to the "tube amp".

And randini makes another excellent point: I have several friends who play in public (being paid not really holding them back), and they swear that they would rather play solid state stuff rather than tube stuff live. The tube amps are finicky (esp here in SoCal when the summer can cook an amp), the solid states more reliable, and (here's the payoff) nobody in the audience can actually hear the difference (beer withstanding). Frankly, I've heard them play, and have to agree. Now tube amps when you are recording .............. I would think that's a different issue.


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Post subject: Re: solid state vs. effects pedals...
Posted: Fri Jan 28, 2011 1:37 am
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WhatsThatSmell wrote:
The tube amps are finicky (esp here in SoCal when the summer can cook an amp), the solid states more reliable, and (here's the payoff) nobody in the audience can actually hear the difference (beer withstanding).


You've made some good points but the first half of this statement is ABSOLUTE CRAP!

Vacuum tubes are designed to comfortably handle 30- or 40-degree swings in ambient temperature in either direction with no performance degradation. You think it's hot in SoCal? Try the Arizona desert. Or the Texas panhandle. Or the Gulf Coast of Florida. 115 degrees in the shade. I've played outdoor venues in all three of these climes and my tube Fender's never even burped. I'm sure you've seen the original "Woodstock" film......how many dead tube amps did you see being carted off that stage? For that matter, how many solid-state amps did you see in that movie at all? Pretty much only one......the Acoustic 361. And if you're familiar with its architecture you know why those particular amps didn't fail. Contemporary transistor designs bear very little relationship to these platforms. They were built to last......just like good tube amps.

Arjay

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Post subject: Re: solid state vs. effects pedals...
Posted: Fri Jan 28, 2011 7:02 am
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It's not the effects I care about. Crank up a SS amp with no effects until it breaks up, then crank up a tube amp of the same wattage. That's where the difference lies with tube purists. Putting effects in front of the amp does color the sound, but SS amps are no more or less reliable than tube amps. I've seen plenty of SS amps take a dump in my lifetime.

Arjay, did John Fogerty use his Kustom at Woodstock? I can't remember.

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Post subject: Re: solid state vs. effects pedals...
Posted: Fri Jan 28, 2011 7:04 am
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It's not the effects I care about. Crank up a SS amp with no effects until it breaks up, then crank up a tube amp of the same wattage. That's where the difference lies with tube purists. Putting effects in front of the amp does color the sound, but SS amps are no more or less reliable than tube amps. I've seen plenty of SS amps take a dump in my lifetime.

Arjay, I do think the Acoustic 361 was Santana's. I can't remember. I'm not even sure if John Fogerty used his Kustom there. All I know is there were a lot of Fender amps there.

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Post subject: Re: solid state vs. effects pedals...
Posted: Fri Jan 28, 2011 7:41 am
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Arjay,
I love this quote you have on your posts. Nothing could be more true :!:

"Here's why reliability is job one: A great sounding amp that breaks down goes from being a favorite piece of gear to a useless piece of crap in less time than it takes to read this sentence." -- BRUCE ZINKY

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Post subject: Re: solid state vs. effects pedals...
Posted: Fri Jan 28, 2011 10:31 am
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ccgjag31 wrote:
The only information I have found is that effects pedals are not digital but analog....


Hi. You might want to double check your information. There are plenty of digital effects pedals. They've been around since the 80's. Just look at the Boss, Digitech, Electro-Harmonix, Line 6 websites among the slew of other pedal manufacturers that have digital effects pedals in their product line.

Your friend is a tool. Show him this website of pros' pedalboards: http://www.pedalboardsofthestars.com/ri ... by-artist/ or http://www.guitargeek.com/ just have him google the pedalboard of his favorite guitarist and chances are there will be at least one digital pedal on his/her board (or maybe have an all solid state or digital rig!). Pros don't bicker back and forth about this crap. They just use the tools that sounds and works best for their creativity.

Does your friend like U2 or Pink Floyd? He better not because The Edge and David Gilmour use a ton of digital effects :shock:
Does your friend like B.B. King? He better not because Mr. King has been using a solid state amp for a looooong time :shock:

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Post subject: Re: solid state vs. effects pedals...
Posted: Fri Jan 28, 2011 10:41 am
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metropolis74 wrote:
ccgjag31 wrote:
The only information I have found is that effects pedals are not digital but analog....


Hi. You might want to double check your information. There are plenty of digital effects pedals. They've been around since the 80's. Just look at the Boss, Digitech, Electro-Harmonix, Line 6 websites among the slew of other pedal manufacturers that have digital effects pedals in their product line.

Your friend is a tool. Show him this website of pros' pedalboards: http://www.pedalboardsofthestars.com/ri ... by-artist/ or http://www.guitargeek.com/ just have him google the pedalboard of his favorite guitarist and chances are there will be at least one digital pedal on his/her board (or maybe have an all solid state or digital rig!). Pros don't bicker back and forth about this crap. They just use the tools that sounds and works best for their creativity.

Does your friend like U2 or Pink Floyd? He better not because The Edge and David Gilmour use a ton of digital effects :shock:
Does your friend like B.B. King? He better not because Mr. King has been using a solid state amp for a looooong time :shock:


How true. I've had a Ibanez Digital Delay since 1986. I use whatever I want. I gig with tube amps and very little effects. I use both analog and digital effects when I use them and don't give a ratsass if it's analog, digital true bypass or not, my end result is MY TONE and no one else's. I use nothing but tube amps. I'm not a gear snob, I just prefer tube overdrive and most times I use no effects. Just the volume control on my guitar.

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Post subject: Re: solid state vs. effects pedals...
Posted: Fri Jan 28, 2011 11:00 am
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63supro wrote:
Arjay, did John Fogerty use his Kustom at Woodstock? I can't remember.


I believe CCR's backline was all Kustoms, except for Stu Clifford's Sunn bass cabs. Jack Cassidy (Jefferson Airplane bass player) may also have had some K200's on stage. The Kustom was a very well designed and engineered amp -- not like the crap they're cranking out now.

Arjay

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