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Post subject: Re: PCBs in Vintage Reissue Amps
Posted: Sat Jan 29, 2011 11:03 pm
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Thanks for all the replies to this topic - especially the PCB pic from Snowy - very informative. I think its right on the money that many boutique amp snobs look down on PCBs without having all the facts.


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Post subject: Re: PCBs in Vintage Reissue Amps
Posted: Sat Feb 05, 2011 10:07 pm
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Interestingly, I was just reading some tech info on the Aiken Amplification website (BTW - great info there) and I came across this little gem, very applicable to this thread, and I quote:

"Ignore the hype put forth by the "gurus" who claim PTP "sounds better" than PCB for various unsubstantiated and unprovable reasons. You will find many of them extolling the virtues of PTP, claiming PCB amps "rob tone", then, when they start making PCB amps to improve their profit margins, suddenly PCB amps no longer "rob tone". Make an informed decision on which to buy based on quality of construction, not hype."

Sounds like good advice.


Snowy


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Post subject: Re: PCBs in Vintage Reissue Amps
Posted: Sun Feb 06, 2011 2:26 am
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I've got both types of Fender amps. I had a PTP Boogie for 10 years and an old JTM-45. I've done side by side comparisons over 40 years of playing as well.

My experience?

PCB sounds just as good, just as reliable -- as long as it's a reputable brand and well-made amp. I've got PCB amps that are from the early '90s, have seen LOTS of heavy use and have had no issues. Overall, both types have required the same amount of servicing, and it's usually something more like a loose or bad solder joint, scratchy pots, new power capacitors (after 20 years), or jack corrosion.

In general and from my own experience I can tell you the PTP argument is bunk. But if you want to pay twice as much, hey, it's your money. Go for it. I like the sound of these RI's just fine -- even better than some of the originals, actually.

And older is not always better (unless that's in reference to me).


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Post subject: Re: PCBs in Vintage Reissue Amps
Posted: Sun Feb 06, 2011 5:40 am
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Really the ONLY advantage to hand wired is they are easier to repair.As far as them being better sounding amps just because they are hand wired is pure fantasy.


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Post subject: Re: PCBs in Vintage Reissue Amps
Posted: Sat May 14, 2011 7:16 am
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Great responses in this thread - thanks! Anyone have a good close-up pic of a Fender RI series amp PCB board they could post here? I'd love to compare it to Roadie's board on the previous page of this topic.


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Post subject: Re: PCBs in Vintage Reissue Amps
Posted: Sat May 14, 2011 7:56 am
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Unadan wrote:
Great responses in this thread - thanks! Anyone have a good close-up pic of a Fender RI series amp PCB board they could post here? I'd love to compare it to Roadie's board on the previous page of this topic.


Google is your friend. :lol:

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Post subject: Re: PCBs in Vintage Reissue Amps
Posted: Sat May 14, 2011 10:07 am
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Not a real close up, but here is the 65 twin Reverb I just put back together.

P.S. I have had to work on my 5E3 PTP amp more than this one, the twin sounds better to me.


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Post subject: Re: PCBs in Vintage Reissue Amps
Posted: Sat May 14, 2011 10:15 am
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However, here is an extremely early Princeton I found at a flea market.
I had to replace the speaker, and thats it.
Some idiot had installed a 16 ohm speaker that had been repaired with silicone.


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Post subject: Re: PCBs in Vintage Reissue Amps
Posted: Sat May 14, 2011 10:38 am
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blues bondsman wrote:
However, here is an extremely early Princeton I found at a flea market.
I had to replace the speaker, and thats it.
Some idiot had installed a 16 ohm speaker that had been repaired with silicone.


Image


You should install a grounded 3-conductor power cable for safety's sake.

JMO

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Post subject: Re: PCBs in Vintage Reissue Amps
Posted: Sat May 14, 2011 11:15 am
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Quote:
And much of the "sonic vibe" that vintage amp fans profess exists with the originals is actually due to component value drift over the intervening years rather than some mythical difference between carbon-comp and metal-oxide resistors.


Retroverbial, I am wondering if the resistors' and capacitors' effect on tone in an amp circuit are different from those in an effects pedal. I designed a boost pedal in the 90's, and had 50 little empty PCB's made so I could experiment with the different types of caps and resistors just to see what difference it made, if any. This is a very simple design, with a 4558, 3 diodes, 10 resistors and 7 caps. I very carefully went through a ton of carbon and metal film resistors with my meter, measuring them to get exactly the same values in the different types. Also measured the caps, both tantalum and electrolytic. I made the little boards with a 10-pin header that I could plug and unplug from the side of my test pedal between songs during gigs. I had four boards, mixing the two types of components. I could definitely hear the difference, preferring the sound of the carbon-comp resistors and electrolytics over the metal-film and tantalum. Carbon/electrolytic is "warmer" to my ear than the other three, with metal-film/tantalum having a brighter/more brittle edge. I also noticed that the C/E combo has a tad more noise than the MF/T combo. Not having the education to know why they do what they do, I am curious how these things relate to an amp circuit vs. my pedal. Here's shot of the original test set-up.

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Post subject: Re: PCBs in Vintage Reissue Amps
Posted: Sat May 14, 2011 11:27 am
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Arjay that amp is in a museum in Japan, The guy said it will never be played (what a shame) !

I worked very hard to find a vintage correct speaker for it.

I jammed on it for a month or so before putting it up for sale.

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Post subject: Re: PCBs in Vintage Reissue Amps
Posted: Sat May 14, 2011 4:52 pm
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Tantalum and metal-film are great for a Mars probe or a lunar rover.

Mebbe not so good for musical-instrument applications.

As for "I made the little boards with a 10-pin header that I could plug and unplug from the side of my test pedal between songs during gigs", I guess I'm not that anal. The people who pay me expect nine to ten songs a set, for four continuous hours -- I really don't the time or the inclination for monkeying around with gear (our bass player already has that shtick covered with his POS Trash-Idiott bass rig).

:lol:

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Post subject: Re: PCBs in Vintage Reissue Amps
Posted: Sat May 14, 2011 7:45 pm
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It took about 5 seconds to switch, and it was very low-pressure Tues-Weds-Thurs, and a madhouse Fri-Sat. We did one week a month there for years. It was a great way to see what worked and what didn't in a live setting.
Any thoughts about how the resistors/caps function in an amp vs. a pedal?

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Post subject: Re: PCBs in Vintage Reissue Amps
Posted: Mon May 16, 2011 9:24 pm
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bluesky636 wrote:
Unadan wrote:
Great responses in this thread - thanks! Anyone have a good close-up pic of a Fender RI series amp PCB board they could post here? I'd love to compare it to Roadie's board on the previous page of this topic.


Google is your friend. :lol:


Tried that (obviously) first. Try it yourself - not many useful pictures come up in google. :o


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