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Post subject: microphonic tube?
Posted: Thu Jan 20, 2011 8:41 pm
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Have a tube making a strange "ping" that I noticed setting up a bit of slap-back tonight. When I make a quick attack and choke I'm getting a very slight pinging sort of ring for a split second. My first thought is one of the pre-amp tubes is starting to become microphonic. Sound about right to the rest of you? I've never heard this king of ping before and am just looking for a bit of conformation from someone who has.


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Post subject: Re: microphonic tube?
Posted: Thu Jan 20, 2011 9:03 pm
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Hi cjpeck,

It sounds like you're describing a rattle instead of microphonic, but yes it could be a preamp tube. It could even be an output tube, but check preamp tubes first. Maybe tube dampener rings would help, or you could exchange your tubes one at a time, with a known good tube, to find one that might be rattling. It could also be something loose on the amp, make sure that the screws on the amp are all tight. :idea:

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Post subject: Re: microphonic tube?
Posted: Thu Jan 20, 2011 9:23 pm
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def. not a rattle. I do have dampener rings on the tubes. Mostly to give the tubes a bit of a break in the car to and from gigs. when things cool down I'm going to take the back off and give em the old tap test.


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Post subject: Re: microphonic tube?
Posted: Thu Jan 20, 2011 9:36 pm
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In nearly forty-five years of hauling Fender tube amps in nearly every type of wheeled conveyance known to modern man (including the bed of a 4x4 pickup over heavily-rutted desert roads and mountain trails, I've never felt compelled to spend money on "tube dampener rings" nor have I ever lost a tube to the perils of rough transit. They're marketing hype IMO.

Arjay

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Post subject: Re: microphonic tube?
Posted: Thu Jan 20, 2011 10:38 pm
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I've never considered the rings as protection for the tubes during transport, but for protection from the pounding that the tubes get in a combo amp while operating it. Others use the rings to quiet rattling tubes. :idea:

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Post subject: Re: microphonic tube?
Posted: Thu Jan 20, 2011 11:25 pm
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shimmilou wrote:
I've never considered the rings as protection for the tubes during transport, but for protection from the pounding that the tubes get in a combo amp while operating it.


PFFFFFFFFFT!

Ever look at a piece of comm/nav/radar/EW gear in a tactical military aircraft from the '50s or '60s?

They're loaded with tubes.

And not one goddamm tube dampening ring to be seen. How much "pounding" do you think those tubes were subjected to, mounted in an F-105 routinely pulling six or seven G's during a combat sortie?

Hype. Period. End of story.

Arjay

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Post subject: Re: microphonic tube?
Posted: Fri Jan 21, 2011 6:54 am
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Honestly,I never even knew there was such a thing as a tube dampening ring until a couple of months ago....seriously!
There's no need for them imho....pure hype,I agree.
Even though I haven't abused them in an F-105 :) I've given mine a good pounding over 44 years.


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Post subject: Re: microphonic tube?
Posted: Fri Jan 21, 2011 7:46 am
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The shop I bought the amp at threw them in along with a going-over to shore up any funky soldering and the like, I just am too lazy to take them out! Anyways, anyone else think it's a tube???


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Post subject: Re: microphonic tube?
Posted: Fri Jan 21, 2011 8:21 am
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Retroverbial wrote:
..Ever look at a piece of comm/nav/radar/EW gear in a tactical military aircraft from the '50s or '60s?

They're loaded with tubes....


Wow! I didn't know that the military used the same kind of tubes as a guitar amp. I always thought that military gear would use mil-spec tubes, typically much more robust than an amp has. I would like to try some of the 6L6s used in a military radar set, I bet that they are good ones. :lol:

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Post subject: Re: microphonic tube?
Posted: Fri Jan 21, 2011 8:36 am
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shimmilou wrote:
Wow! I didn't know that the military used the same kind of tubes as a guitar amp. I always thought that military gear would use mil-spec tubes, typically much more robust than an amp has. I would like to try some of the 6L6s used in a military radar set, I bet that they are good ones. :lol:


Just where do you think 7025's and 5881's came from?

Those designations mark them as mil-spec designs.

And yes, many ground-based tactical radar sets from the 1950's also used massive quantities of these tubes along with 12AX7's, 12AT7's, 12AY7's, 12AU7's, 6L6GC's, 5U4GB's, 6080's etc. And when we turned in all of that obsolete gear, the large quantity of bench-stock spares we had on hand to support those sets was declared excess to be disposed of as "non-recoverable" trash......right into my greedy hands.

:mrgreen:

Arjay

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Post subject: Re: microphonic tube?
Posted: Fri Jan 21, 2011 8:55 am
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Retroverbial wrote:
shimmilou wrote:
Wow! I didn't know that the military used the same kind of tubes as a guitar amp. I always thought that military gear would use mil-spec tubes, typically much more robust than an amp has. I would like to try some of the 6L6s used in a military radar set, I bet that they are good ones. :lol:


Just where do you think 7025's and 5881's came from?

Those designations mark them as mil-spec designs.

And yes, many ground-based tactical radar sets from the 1950's also used massive quantities of these tubes along with 12AX7's, 12AT7's, 12AY7's, 12AU7's, 6L6GC's, 5U4GB's, 6080's etc. And when we turned in all of that obsolete gear, the large quantity of bench-stock spares we had on hand to support those sets was declared excess to be disposed of as "non-recoverable" trash......right into my greedy hands.

:mrgreen:

Arjay

Yep, exactly. The whole reason people use tube dampers today is first, the amps and the HRD series are notorious for this are not designed with enough clearance between the speaker. There is too much power in too small a cabinet and secondly, tubes aren't built like they used to be. Why do you think years ago tubes lasted for decades and today if you gig on a regular basis you're lucky to get a year out of them? My 30+ year old Twin had it power tubes replace once. Never a rattle or microphonic tube. Those 6L6's were still acceptable too. I only replaced them because "I Thought I Should". Dumbass me. The 6V6 in my 74 Champ just last year developed a rattle. I bought this amp used and I've had it for 25 years. Yes MIL Spec tubes were very common in guitar amps.

shimmilou, you won't win with Arjay. The man has forgotten more stuff than I know about amps and tubes. :lol: Arjay is the serious go-to guy when it comes to all things Fender and vacuum tubes.

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Post subject: Re: microphonic tube?
Posted: Fri Jan 21, 2011 9:02 am
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I dunno about that, supro.

I respect (and often learn from) anyone who routinely puts his or her face into an amp's innards and can competently diagnose and repair a problem. Many here on this forum do that regularly -- doubtless a contributing factor to this section's popularity and utility.

Arjay

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Post subject: Re: microphonic tube?
Posted: Fri Jan 21, 2011 9:07 am
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Win 63supro??? Nah, I learn a lot from Retroverbial. So, I guess that you agree that tube dampener rings are hype? :?: Besides, he said "end of story", so no more discussion. :lol:

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Post subject: Re: microphonic tube?
Posted: Fri Jan 21, 2011 9:55 am
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No, I've used them in my HRDlx and they worked. My output tubes rattled like a dog shittinbones and they eliminated the problem. Mine weren't the "O" ring type, they had stainless steel rings with pads on them. They were from Herbie's Audio. Only my GT's would rattle, the JJ's were fine.

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Post subject: Re: microphonic tube?
Posted: Fri Jan 21, 2011 10:42 am
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I had to use dampers on my DRRI with the 15" in there, the low frequencies were causing too much vibration, it helped a bit, but there's still some rattle, probably cause the speaker is too close to the tubes...


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