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Post subject: 93 blues deville fried diode- long winded..
Posted: Thu Jan 20, 2011 8:28 am
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Hi folks, let me first say hello to you fender amp lovers as this is my first post.
So a bit of an intro......

I've had my 93 Blues Deville 212 for over 16 years (just love this amp!) and this is the first bit of trouble I've had with it. Been running the stock Sovtek 5881 wxt's and 12ax7 wa's all this time... :shock:

I live out on the west coast of south Australia where summer is very hot, windy and dusty... this amp has seen so much action in the way of out door/ indoor gigs, practice... traveling vast distances, it's really amazing.

Here's my prob... I had a little issue with it going back October last year, quite a warm night, it seemed to have lost all power and the foot switch wasn't operating. I couldn't get the second channel or reverb to come in. I left it over night and cleaned it the next day and it was fine again. (common prob it seems)
Ok last night at band practice it was fine but after about 5-10 min, same thing again.
I could use only one channel but no reverb.. so used this for the night and then when every one left, I checked all the tubes and found one of the 5881 wxt tubes had broken the plastic alignment pin.. thus the tube was stuffed.
I have some JJ6L6 gc's & JJecc83 s coming from Eurotubes.. very long over due I know!

I started to research on the net for what could be happening, if only to come down to a nackered tube and so did a lot of pondering through this forum looking for answers.
I checked the R85 & R86 330 ohm resistors for heat, these looked ok with no obvious burn marks and they have been spaced off the pcb with silicon... I left it for the night.

Firing up the amp today with the back off I smelt something frying.... I saw a bit of smoke wafting so quickly turned off the amp.
On very close inspection I noticed that CR 20, a IN 4003 diode looked as if it had cooked.
In any ones experience, is this typical to see one of these diodes go if there's a break down with a tube??
If so, should I be looking for anything else that could have been affected??
Resisters to check...

As I live about 8 hours away from any techy, I'd like to replace this/ these parts myself.. I can use a multi meter and soldering iron no worries...
However, it seems getting a replacement IN4003 diode looks to be a bit of a drama in Australia... any other diode like say the in4004 do??
Any good electrical stores you can recommend??

Your advice, direction and thoughts would be much appreciated.
Sorry for all the questions!

Best regards

Rich

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Last edited by richardo on Thu Jan 20, 2011 6:02 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Post subject: Re: 93 blues deville fried diode- long winded..
Posted: Thu Jan 20, 2011 9:09 am
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Hi richardo,

It sounds like bad solder joints or broken trace in the power supply section that you mentioned, where the two big white resistors are located. The reverb op amps, and the channel switching relays get their power from these +16V and -16V supplies. In order to check/repair the joints, you have to remove the main circuit board, removing the knobs and jack nuts to be able to pull the board down and away from the chassis, to access the rear of the board. The diode CR20 is also in that power supply circuit, check it for a short. You can substitute a 4004 in place of the 4003, the 4004 has a higher voltage rating. But something else is causing the diode to fry, if it is bad, could be from the bad joints or traces. Make sure that you have your amp unplugged from electricity, and the caps are safely discharged before you start.

Check this site for some info on the Hot Rod Deluxe, some of the info relates to your amp also. The site isn't current, but the info is still good.

http://www.justinholton.com/hotrod/

This should be the correct schematic for your BDvl.

http://support.fender.com/schematics/guitar_amplifiers/Blues_DeVille_schematic.pdf

Edit:
Be careful of the ribbon cables while moving the board, don't allow the cables to flex at either end at the circuit boards, so they won't break. :idea:

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Post subject: Re: 93 blues deville fried diode- long winded..
Posted: Thu Jan 20, 2011 1:01 pm
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richardo,

Try here
http://www.mouser.com/?cm_mmc=google-_- ... 4AodqQxOIw

I use mouser all the time for some of my projects. They say they have 14 global locations.
Not sure if they go down under though.

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Post subject: Re: 93 blues deville fried diode- long winded..
Posted: Thu Jan 20, 2011 1:32 pm
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Ricardo,

To know if your diode is OK, use your multimeter in "diode" position. In forward you should read rougly 0,6V, in reverse you should read infinite meaning high impedance, no leakeage.
Change it if it is not OK; otherwise find the origine of a short circuit.
(1N4003 to 4007 are easy to find in scrapped electronics modules, TV ...)
8)

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Post subject: Re: 93 blues deville fried diode- long winded..
Posted: Thu Jan 20, 2011 6:01 pm
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shimmilou wrote:
Hi richardo,

It sounds like bad solder joints or broken trace in the power supply section that you mentioned, where the two big white resistors are located. The reverb op amps, and the channel switching relays get their power from these +16V and -16V supplies. In order to check/repair the joints, you have to remove the main circuit board, removing the knobs and jack nuts to be able to pull the board down and away from the chassis, to access the rear of the board. The diode CR20 is also in that power supply circuit, check it for a short. You can substitute a 4004 in place of the 4003, the 4004 has a higher voltage rating. But something else is causing the diode to fry, if it is bad, could be from the bad joints or traces. Make sure that you have your amp unplugged from electricity, and the caps are safely discharged before you start.

Check this site for some info on the Hot Rod Deluxe, some of the info relates to your amp also. The site isn't current, but the info is still good.

http://www.justinholton.com/hotrod/

This should be the correct schematic for your BDvl.

http://support.fender.com/schematics/guitar_amplifiers/Blues_DeVille_schematic.pdf

Edit:
Be careful of the ribbon cables while moving the board, don't allow the cables to flex at either end at the circuit boards, so they won't break. :idea:


Thanks Shim for the advice and links.
I actually came across Justins site which I thought was really very informative as to my probs.
The warning about the main pcb- tube pcb cables is a very good point, they certainly are stiff mothers and can see they could easily break.
I have yet to remove the pcb from the enclosure, but will do this over the weekend.

I'll let you know how I get on once I gets some parts in.

All the best
Rich

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Post subject: Re: 93 blues deville fried diode- long winded..
Posted: Thu Jan 20, 2011 6:04 pm
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63supro wrote:
richardo,

Try here
http://www.mouser.com/?cm_mmc=google-_- ... 4AodqQxOIw

I use mouser all the time for some of my projects. They say they have 14 global locations.
Not sure if they go down under though.



Cheers for that supro... good to know!

All the best
Rich

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Post subject: Re: 93 blues deville fried diode- long winded..
Posted: Thu Jan 20, 2011 6:20 pm
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Tis-san wrote:
Ricardo,

To know if your diode is OK, use your multimeter in "diode" position. In forward you should read rougly 0,6V, in reverse you should read infinite meaning high impedance, no leakeage.
Change it if it is not OK; otherwise find the origine of a short circuit.
(1N4003 to 4007 are easy to find in scrapped electronics modules, TV ...)
8)


Thanks Tissan, all good info!
Just checked CR20 & CR21(right next door) these are both IN4003 diodes and both are gone.
I will go through some old crt monitors and broken electrical components to see if I can locate a IN4003.. if not I'll see if I can source some from somewhere locally or might have to try in your neck of the woods.

All the best
Rich

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Post subject: Re: 93 blues deville fried diode- long winded..
Posted: Fri Jan 21, 2011 6:35 am
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Be sure to check the power supply caps and output tubes.

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Post subject: Re: 93 blues deville fried diode- long winded..
Posted: Fri Jan 21, 2011 7:43 am
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More for one of the techies,
but how are you checking the components while they are still on the board ?

I would think If you put your test leads on either side of a component you are testing that componenet and anything it is wired too at the time, no?

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Post subject: Re: 93 blues deville fried diode- long winded..
Posted: Fri Jan 21, 2011 11:48 am
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Best to pull one leg of the component you are trying to test. Testing with everything still onboard may lead to false readings. You don't need to pull both legs, most of the time.


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Post subject: Re: 93 blues deville fried diode- long winded..
Posted: Sat Jan 22, 2011 8:35 am
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63supro wrote:
Be sure to check the power supply caps and output tubes.


Thanks Supro, sounds like good advice; I think after 16 years it would be a good idea to replace these capacitors from what I've read for their life span. I guess when one thing starts to break down, other things arn't far off...
Like to see another good 16 years out of the ol' girl! :P

Can you recommend good caps??
All the existing capacitors are 'IC'... keep to these or use something else??

All the best
Rich

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Post subject: Re: 93 blues deville fried diode- long winded..
Posted: Sat Jan 22, 2011 8:55 am
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IC's are lowest-bidder junk.

Go with Sprague's or F&T's.

Arjay

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Post subject: Re: 93 blues deville fried diode- long winded..
Posted: Tue Jan 25, 2011 7:01 am
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Retroverbial wrote:
IC's are lowest-bidder junk.

Go with Sprague's or F&T's.

Arjay



+1

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Post subject: Re: 93 blues deville fried diode- long winded..
Posted: Tue Jan 25, 2011 9:00 am
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+2 ! I've used the F&Ts quite a bit, they seem to be great. :)

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Post subject: Re: 93 blues deville fried diode- long winded..
Posted: Mon Feb 07, 2011 9:50 am
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Hi folks,
I've now replaced the burnt out diode, (had to direct wire to the next component as the solder pad was burnt) plus replaced all that were of the same value ie CR18- 21.
Replaced R85 & R86 330ohm ceramic power resistors.
I've recapped using F &T and Sprague, these were from the supreme Blues deville kit from Fromels.... from the kit replaced the two input jacks;
also from the kit replaced the plate load resistors @ R51 (91K carbon comp) and also R52, R4, R9 & R18 with 100K carbon comp. ones; @ C6 installed a .1 orange drop, @ C7 a .015 orange drop cap and @ C5 installed a 220p silver mica cap. (not sure if these were necessary ??
I've gone over both main pcb and tube boards touching up solder points.

Put everything back into the cab, reconnected all leads, put new power tubes and preamp tubes in, I hit the power switch to 'on', nothing is frying (good) slight humming, hit the standby to on and with guitar plugged in, there is no sound other than a crackling/ distortive/ crashing sound almost like its the reverb being shaken but not quite... for want of a better description.

So yes, I can solder and read a meter but that's where it all stops for me.... :cry:

Any ideas please... have I wired the input jacks wrong, although I did test them with a meter following Justin Holtons instructions...
I appreciate your input to what is happening and where I should check next....

Thanks again guys...

All the best
Rich

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