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Post subject: Anyone tried 6v6's in a Bassman LTD?
Posted: Tue Jan 11, 2011 5:29 pm
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I'd like to get the amp to breakup just a bit sooner & on the Eurotubes site they have a 6v6 option.Is it safe to do this (with re-bias),and if so how does it sound?

Edit: My primary concern is whether or not it's a safe "mod" or if it will damage the amp.And won't it change the impedance as well?If it sounds horrible,I'll just take 'em out no big deal.


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Post subject: Re: Anyone tried 6v6's in a Bassman LTD?
Posted: Wed Jan 12, 2011 2:50 pm
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6V6 are not powerfull enough, you will damage these tubes and there a risk to damage your output transformer.
I don' t think you can reduce power with new bias.
Also the impedance tube/ transfo won't match.

Best ; use power attenuator like Weber or Hot Plate or Ultimate. It's a usefull accessoiries


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Post subject: Re: Anyone tried 6v6's in a Bassman LTD?
Posted: Wed Jan 12, 2011 3:12 pm
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stratele52 wrote:
Also the impedance tube/ transfo won't match.


Plate-to-plate impedance for a pair of 6L6/5881's in class AB operation is roughly 5k ohms. 6V6's want to "see" around 8k ohms.

Too risky for this kid!

Arjay

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Post subject: Re: Anyone tried 6v6's in a Bassman LTD?
Posted: Wed Jan 12, 2011 3:15 pm
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stratele52 wrote:
6V6 are not powerfull enough, you will damage these tubes and there a risk to damage your output transformer.
I don' t think you can reduce power with new bias.
Also the impedance tube/ transfo won't match.

Best ; use power attenuator like Weber or Hot Plate or Ultimate. It's a usefull accessoiries


The JJ 6V6s (and only the JJ 6V6s) sold by Eurotubes ( http://www.eurotubes.com/ ) are designed to handle a plate voltage of 450 VDC. They are sold in retube kits by Eurotubes for various amps including the 59 Bassman LTD:

"Fender 59RI Standard Retube with 6V6's
Price: $78.00
Description: If your 59RI is the LTD or later model with an adjustable bias then this kit can be used to lower the output. This kit includes a matched pair of the JJ 6V6's, a GZ34 rectifier tube and three ECC83S preamp tubes with one of them balanced for the phase inverter in V3. This will drop the power down to a little less than 30 watts to get you an earlier breakup and a great vintage tone!"

As noted, they can only be used with the 59 bassman reissues that incorporate an adjustable bias pot.

Although I have not heard this retube kit, I have one of Eurotubes retube kits for my BDRI and can vouch for its quality and sound (both great).

Regarding the safety/reliability of the Eurotube 6V6 kit, considering the liability issues if Eurotubes were wrong, I have no doubt that what they are selling is a very viable product and I would have no hesitation in buying one if I were in the market to do so.

All that said, the difference in loudness between 30 watts and 40 watts with the same speakers is negligible. The amp may break up earlier with the 6V6s versus the stock 6L6GCs, but it will still be one loud amp.

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Post subject: Re: Anyone tried 6v6's in a Bassman LTD?
Posted: Wed Jan 12, 2011 3:18 pm
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Retroverbial wrote:
stratele52 wrote:
Also the impedance tube/ transfo won't match.


Plate-to-plate impedance for a pair of 6L6/5881's in class AB operation is roughly 5k ohms. 6V6's want to "see" around 8k ohms.

Too risky for this kid!

Arjay


I don't see "plate-to-plate impedance" listed, but here is JJ's spec sheet:

http://www.jj-electronic.com/pdf/6V6.pdf

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Post subject: Re: Anyone tried 6v6's in a Bassman LTD?
Posted: Wed Jan 12, 2011 3:27 pm
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Plate voltage is one thing and power is another thing : 6V6 is too low in power for your amp.


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Post subject: Re: Anyone tried 6v6's in a Bassman LTD?
Posted: Wed Jan 12, 2011 4:04 pm
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stratele52 wrote:
Plate voltage is one thing and power is another thing : 6V6 is too low in power for your amp.


Ummm, did you read the Eurotubes kit description in my post? That is the whole idea of this kit: lower power and earlier breakup.

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Post subject: Re: Anyone tried 6v6's in a Bassman LTD?
Posted: Wed Jan 12, 2011 4:15 pm
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The design is optimized for each power valve familly, consequently, you found usually differents impedance for the tranformers (2,5K, 5K ....).
Adaptations are sometimes possible 8) But make sure it won't reduce the durability of you equipment.

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Post subject: Re: Anyone tried 6v6's in a Bassman LTD?
Posted: Wed Jan 12, 2011 4:18 pm
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bluesky636 wrote:
The amp may break up earlier with the 6V6s versus the stock 6L6GCs, but it will still be one loud amp.


That's exactly what I want.I need it to be a loud amp.I'm not even really wanting to lower the wattage so much.I just wanna get to the edge of breakup (still clean-ish...not full on dirt) at a more manageable volume.

On another note,Eurotubes site say's that JJ's can handle higher bias settings,could I just put JJ 6L6gc's in & bias it hotter to achieve this,I'd feel safer doing that anyway.


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Post subject: Re: Anyone tried 6v6's in a Bassman LTD?
Posted: Wed Jan 12, 2011 4:56 pm
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bluesky636 wrote:
I don't see "plate-to-plate impedance" listed, but here is JJ's spec sheet:

http://www.jj-electronic.com/pdf/6V6.pdf


Try reading "the bible"......

That's the RCA Receiving Tube Handbook.

Arjay

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Post subject: Re: Anyone tried 6v6's in a Bassman LTD?
Posted: Wed Jan 12, 2011 5:00 pm
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Tis-san wrote:
The design is optimized for each power valve familly, consequently, you found usually differents impedance for the tranformers (2,5K, 5K ....).
Adaptations are sometimes possible 8) But make sure it won't reduce the durability of you equipment.


Like I said, considering the liability if something went wrong, one has to believe that Eurotubes has thoroughly vetted this kit. On their website they say:

"We get questions all the time asking if running 6V6's in Hotrod Deluxe amps, or running KT77's in a JSX, or running KT88's in a Dual Rec will hurt the amp? The answer is that we would of course, never recommend anything that would hurt your amp. Before we recommend any retube kit we thoroughly test the amps ability to run the tubes and whether or not the combination sounds good. We don't recommend tubes just because a player posted on a forum somewhere that a particular combination worked good for him, unlike some other tube vendors we do our own research."

Sounds reasonable to me.

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Last edited by bluesky636 on Thu Jan 13, 2011 4:39 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Post subject: Re: Anyone tried 6v6's in a Bassman LTD?
Posted: Wed Jan 12, 2011 5:03 pm
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Retroverbial wrote:
bluesky636 wrote:
I don't see "plate-to-plate impedance" listed, but here is JJ's spec sheet:

http://www.jj-electronic.com/pdf/6V6.pdf


Try reading "the bible"......

That's the RCA Receiving Tube Handbook.

Arjay


You mean the one that was written before JJ developed their 6V6s? :D

http://www.bunkerofdoom.com/tubes/rc25/index.html

Also , see my post just above this one.

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Post subject: Re: Anyone tried 6v6's in a Bassman LTD?
Posted: Wed Jan 12, 2011 5:09 pm
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emanym wrote:
bluesky636 wrote:
The amp may break up earlier with the 6V6s versus the stock 6L6GCs, but it will still be one loud amp.


That's exactly what I want.I need it to be a loud amp.I'm not even really wanting to lower the wattage so much.I just wanna get to the edge of breakup (still clean-ish...not full on dirt) at a more manageable volume.

On another note,Eurotubes site say's that JJ's can handle higher bias settings,could I just put JJ 6L6gc's in & bias it hotter to achieve this,I'd feel safer doing that anyway.


The JJ 6L6GCs are good tubes. I run mine at 36 mA plate current/406 VDC plate voltage which is about as high as the BDRI will go. It sounds great with a really sweet bluesy tone.

Regarding the 6V6 kit, like I say, I have never heard it. The question is, do you believe what Eurotubes says? I tend to do so. If you have questions, you should shoot them an e-mail or call them. They are very happy to discuss their tubes and kits with customers.

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Post subject: Re: Anyone tried 6v6's in a Bassman LTD?
Posted: Wed Jan 12, 2011 9:29 pm
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As long as you are running with a tube rectifier, you can usually handle a set of Tungsol 5881 reissues. They sound great. Original Tungsols will sound even better.

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Post subject: Re: Anyone tried 6v6's in a Bassman LTD?
Posted: Thu Jan 13, 2011 3:15 am
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Ummm, did you read the Eurotubes kit description in my post? That is the whole idea of this kit: lower power and earlier breakup----bluesky

No, at the time I write I did not read what Eurotube kit description.

My question is; can you have enough negative bias voltage to accomodate the 6V6 low power ?


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