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Post subject: deluxe reverb question
Posted: Mon Jan 10, 2011 11:24 am
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when i was sitting in with a friends band last week i noticed the guitar player had a patch cord running from the # 1 channel of his deluxe to the #2 channel then he pluged his guitar in to the second input of channel 2 of his amp . my question is what exactly does this do ? i have been playing for a long time and used this trick on an old tweed amp i used but never on a black face deluxe . can some one please give me an answer. question #2, i use a fender cvr now as my main amp can i do the same thing ?


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Post subject: Re: deluxe reverb question
Posted: Mon Jan 10, 2011 4:55 pm
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Hopefully this answers your question.

http://www.singlecoil.com/docs/distortion.pdf

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Post subject: Re: deluxe reverb question
Posted: Mon Jan 10, 2011 8:18 pm
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The post above is what most people do,but not the way you described it with the guitar plugged into the 2nd input of the Vibrato(2nd)channel.


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Post subject: Re: deluxe reverb question
Posted: Tue Jan 11, 2011 4:13 pm
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I have been running a Morley A/B/C box to the Normal/Vibrato channels. I can use either or both channels together for a boost. I did the reverb to normal channel mod which puts the channels in phase with each other.


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Post subject: Re: deluxe reverb question
Posted: Sun Jan 16, 2011 12:02 pm
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fender323 wrote:
Hopefully this answers your question.

http://www.singlecoil.com/docs/distortion.pdf


This is definitly wrong! At least on every old blackface and silverface amp Normal and Vibrato channel are Out Of Phase. That's because the Vibrato channel uses on tube more to mix reverb and vibrato, which turns phase 180 degrees. What may be useful ist to put a delay between the two channels and put the effect on 100 % wet. but if there is some original signal present it will cancel out and sound terrible ( no Bass) I own SF Twin, a SF Vibrolux Reverb and a BF Deluxe Reverb. If you put both channels on the same volume they cancel out, if one is louder it overrides the other but it does not add gain, thats technically impossible, so it is senseless. In fact it reduces gain.
The trick with patching two channels works only on Marshalls. Maybe it works on the newer RI but I doubt.
TiPi

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Post subject: Re: deluxe reverb question
Posted: Sun Jan 16, 2011 2:17 pm
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TiPiMods wrote:
fender323 wrote:
Hopefully this answers your question.

http://www.singlecoil.com/docs/distortion.pdf


This is definitly wrong! At least on every old blackface and silverface amp Normal and Vibrato channel are Out Of Phase. That's because the Vibrato channel uses on tube more to mix reverb and vibrato, which turns phase 180 degrees. What may be useful ist to put a delay between the two channels and put the effect on 100 % wet. but if there is some original signal present it will cancel out and sound terrible ( no Bass) I own SF Twin, a SF Vibrolux Reverb and a BF Deluxe Reverb. If you put both channels on the same volume they cancel out, if one is louder it overrides the other but it does not add gain, thats technically impossible, so it is senseless. In fact it reduces gain.
The trick with patching two channels works only on Marshalls. Maybe it works on the newer RI but I doubt.
TiPi


The out-of-phase caveat applies only to reverb-equipped dual-channel Fenders. And the phase reversal occurs within the reverb transformer itself.

Arjay

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Post subject: Re: deluxe reverb question
Posted: Sun Jan 16, 2011 3:51 pm
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I was looking for this thread, but couldn't remember where it was when I posted a parallel question here:
viewtopic.php?f=13&t=49347

And I know they are out of phase, but you can dial the volume knobs to make the Normal channel more "dominant", or vice versa. There is a point where they cancel each other (about equal volumes), but in all other cases, the tone is improved. I don't know how it dood it, but the results are sublimely excellent. I'm using my Radio Shack Y-splitter, and the amp is just better in every way, even the sustain. (Though these springs may be doing some of that heavy lifting too: viewtopic.php?f=6&t=47290&p=587679#p587679

I say don't look at this empirically and technically. Give it a try. You will be surprised. And it don't cost much.


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Post subject: Re: deluxe reverb question
Posted: Sun Jan 16, 2011 5:07 pm
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I did the very simple "Fritz Mod" to my DRRI. (Google it if you wish). Now the Normal & Vibrato channels are in phase and there is reverb and vibrato in both channels. The channels can now be jumped as described. You can play thru both channels at once for more vol and grit, or thru either with an A/B box.


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Post subject: Re: deluxe reverb question
Posted: Sun Jan 16, 2011 5:17 pm
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alnico357 wrote:
I did the very simple "Fritz Mod" to my DRRI. (Google it if you wish). Now the Normal & Vibrato channels are in phase and there is reverb and vibrato in both channels. The channels can now be jumped as described. You can play thru both channels at once for more vol and grit, or thru either with an A/B box.


+1

Arjay

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Post subject: Re: deluxe reverb question
Posted: Mon Jan 17, 2011 3:26 am
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Retroverbial wrote:
TiPiMods wrote:
fender323 wrote:
Hopefully this answers your question.

http://www.singlecoil.com/docs/distortion.pdf


This is definitly wrong! At least on every old blackface and silverface amp Normal and Vibrato channel are Out Of Phase. That's because the Vibrato channel uses on tube more to mix reverb and vibrato, which turns phase 180 degrees. What may be useful ist to put a delay between the two channels and put the effect on 100 % wet. but if there is some original signal present it will cancel out and sound terrible ( no Bass) I own SF Twin, a SF Vibrolux Reverb and a BF Deluxe Reverb. If you put both channels on the same volume they cancel out, if one is louder it overrides the other but it does not add gain, thats technically impossible, so it is senseless. In fact it reduces gain.
The trick with patching two channels works only on Marshalls. Maybe it works on the newer RI but I doubt.
TiPi


The out-of-phase caveat applies only to reverb-equipped dual-channel Fenders. And the phase reversal occurs within the reverb transformer itself.

Arjay

I'm sorry, thats wrong too. Think about it: the reverb transformer drives the reverb spring, and what comes out of the spring is not only changed in phase but much more :wink: its a totally deformed and delayed signal. Anyway, this signal, our reverb is only mixed together with the original signal.
What makes the two channels different is: the normal channel needs two amp stages (tube systems) before the Phase Inverter, the vibrato channel has 3 Systems before the PI.
the Fritz mod puts the normal channels signal before this 3rd gain stage.
http://www.fenderforum.com/userphotos/i ... ecid=48201
I must admit, I dislike the idea of putting two coupling caps together without any resistor between them, it loads down the two stages probably more than a mastervolume on the late Silverfaces does.
I personally like the normal channel especially in the studio, when you don't use the reverb anyway ( do you?). It seems to sound a little more direct and more sensitive to my ears.

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Post subject: Re: deluxe reverb question
Posted: Mon Jan 17, 2011 12:19 pm
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I would suggest that you sync up a Tectronics 545 or other dual-trace oscilloscope and simultaneously display and compare the signals at the input and output of the reverb transformer using 10X ball-clip probes. A single tone (say, 400 Hz) injected at one of the amp's vibrato channel inputs via an H-P or Eico signal generator will be sufficient for this demonstration.

Arjay

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