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Post subject: Re: Fender Champion 600?
Posted: Fri Dec 24, 2010 10:51 am
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xdavidandrewx wrote:
...sadly I tweak everything I get its just part of being a musician.


Don't be sad, that's a good thing, and quite common! Even the pros swap out speakers, tubes etc, in just about every amp ever made. I think that I enjoy modding as much as playing (if not more). I was really surprised to hear that even great amps like the PRRI, TRRI are commonly modified, in particular the speakers and tubes. :)

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Post subject: Re: Fender Champion 600?
Posted: Fri Dec 24, 2010 10:52 am
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Powdered Toast Man wrote:
63supro wrote:
I also agree with Arjay. The 600's do nothing for me. They're pretty boxy sounding and get raspy sounding when you push them. By the time you change the lousy stock tubes and upgrade the speaker, you could build a 5F1 Clone kit. Check out Snowy's post. He did a great job. If you don't want to do that, I'd look for a clean 70's Silverface Champ. Sounds way better and has tone controls.


Thank you! I'd read nothing but stories where guys were wetting themselves over these amps. I finally plugged into one in the store and thought, "huh?" It's ok... I guess. My 73 Champ sounds about 1000x better though.

And yeah, I even saw one dude on Youtube who replaced the speaker... and the tubes... and almost all the caps and resistors... and the grille cloth... litereally sunk $300 into it. Just buy yourself a SF Champ already.


+1 I have a 74 Champ and love the thing. Sometimes I run my little 73 Pignose through a 112 cab and it sounds better than a 600.

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Post subject: Re: Fender Champion 600?
Posted: Fri Dec 24, 2010 10:58 am
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shimmilou wrote:
xdavidandrewx wrote:
...sadly I tweak everything I get its just part of being a musician.


Don't be sad, that's a good thing, and quite common! Even the pros swap out speakers, tubes etc, in just about every amp ever made. I think that I enjoy modding as much as playing (if not more). I was really surprised to hear that even great amps like the PRRI, TRRI are commonly modified, in particular the speakers and tubes. :)



+1

63supro,
Is that the Legendary 7-100 pignose you have? It's one of the first in not the first pignose ever came out with, right?

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Post subject: Re: Fender Champion 600?
Posted: Fri Dec 24, 2010 11:05 am
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Thanks to everyone, I'm kinda back and forth on the amp.

I'm going to try it out before I go any further, but what other good Combo Tube amps are there that aren't too expensive (if there is such a thing)? Maybe like $100-$300 range?


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Post subject: Re: Fender Champion 600?
Posted: Fri Dec 24, 2010 11:12 am
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Powdered Toast Man wrote:
63supro wrote:
I also agree with Arjay. The 600's do nothing for me. They're pretty boxy sounding and get raspy sounding when you push them. By the time you change the lousy stock tubes and upgrade the speaker, you could build a 5F1 Clone kit. Check out Snowy's post. He did a great job. If you don't want to do that, I'd look for a clean 70's Silverface Champ. Sounds way better and has tone controls.


Thank you! I'd read nothing but stories where guys were wetting themselves over these amps. I finally plugged into one in the store and thought, "huh?" It's ok... I guess. My 73 Champ sounds about 1000x better though.

And yeah, I even saw one dude on Youtube who replaced the speaker... and the tubes... and almost all the caps and resistors... and the grille cloth... litereally sunk $300 into it. Just buy yourself a SF Champ already.


Mebbe they oughta call this amp the "Chump"......in honor of the pilgrims who get conned into buying one.

:lol: :lol: :lol:

Arjay (who never forgot P.T. Barnum's adage)

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Post subject: Re: Fender Champion 600?
Posted: Fri Dec 24, 2010 11:29 am
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Believing that Barnum said that, is a more successful con, he never said it. :lol: Maybe "Chimp" would be a better moniker, as it is so simple even a monkey can understand it. :lol:

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Post subject: Re: Fender Champion 600?
Posted: Fri Dec 24, 2010 12:14 pm
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fender323 wrote:
shimmilou wrote:
xdavidandrewx wrote:
...sadly I tweak everything I get its just part of being a musician.


Don't be sad, that's a good thing, and quite common! Even the pros swap out speakers, tubes etc, in just about every amp ever made. I think that I enjoy modding as much as playing (if not more). I was really surprised to hear that even great amps like the PRRI, TRRI are commonly modified, in particular the speakers and tubes. :)



+1

63supro,
Is that the Legendary 7-100 pignose you have? It's one of the first in not the first pignose ever came out with, right?


Yep, actually the serial number is in the low 5,000's. I bought it in 73 and I still have it and use it. I bought it after I saw Frank Zappa used one on TV. I think it was the Dick Cavett Show. LOL

Money4nothing, I would actually look at a VHT Special 6
http://www.vhtamp.com/vht-special.html
A friend of mine has one and the thing is really nice.
Like I said the Jet City amps are nice too. No DSP in either amp, just great tube tone. The bigger speaker alone is worth it.

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Post subject: Re: Fender Champion 600?
Posted: Fri Dec 24, 2010 2:19 pm
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money4nothin wrote:
Thanks to everyone, I'm kinda back and forth on the amp.

I'm going to try it out before I go any further, but what other good Combo Tube amps are there that aren't too expensive (if there is such a thing)? Maybe like $100-$300 range?


That budget puts in the range to buy a silverface Champ Amp. The vintage Champs are head and shoulders above the modern low end amps. Hand-wired - point to point - made in the USA. If there is a vintage shop around, you should go look at one. You can typically find them on Craigslist also. I have a 1966 blackface Champ that I traded my Hot Rod Deluxe for and I couldn't be happier. 63supro and the others are dead on when they recommend looking at a vintage amp.


FWIW - Silverface refers to the finish on faceplate on the amp. Fender used that aesthetic from 1968-1980. This is a nice video demonstration of a silverface champ


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Post subject: Re: Fender Champion 600?
Posted: Fri Dec 24, 2010 2:30 pm
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phansford wrote:
I have a 1966 blackface Champ that I traded my Hot Rod Deluxe for and I couldn't be happier.


+1

Ya done good, PF!

Arjay

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Post subject: Re: Fender Champion 600?
Posted: Fri Dec 24, 2010 3:18 pm
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I still use my 74 Champ for low volume jams/rehearsals/gigs and recording. It's great with pedals, cheap to recap when you need to. There's hardly a day goes by that I don't use it for something. Blackface is even sweeter. The new Champs/Champions are nothing like their namesakes. I don't understand why they chose to modify these great amps and put cheesy DSP effects in them. These amps were great from the beginning. $300 should get you a nice one. We know of what we speak. Just myself and Arjay have over 80 years of experience between us. It sounds like phansford has a bit of time under his belt as well as many other of us geezers on the forum.

If you want a seriously reliable, old school, well built amp go with a vintage Champ. If you want disposable modern landfill material go with the 600. JMO YMMV
As you may have realized, I am an outspoken and honest individual and will never recommend a piece of gear that I have no faith in or is so cheaply made that I see someone just wasting their hard earned bucks on. No one should have to settle on a piece of gear just because of price alone. Good, used gear is usually plentiful especially in this economy. :wink:

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Last edited by 63supro on Fri Dec 24, 2010 3:36 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Post subject: Re: Fender Champion 600?
Posted: Fri Dec 24, 2010 3:36 pm
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63supro wrote:
I still use my 74 Champ for low volume jams/rehearsals/gigs and recording. It's great with pedals, cheap to recap when you need to. There's hardly a day goes by that I don't use it for something. Blackface is even sweeter. The new Champs/Champions are nothing like their namesakes. I don't understand why they chose to modify these great amps and put cheesy DSP effects in them. These amps were great from the beginning. $300 should get you a nice one. We know of what we speak. Just myself and Arjay have over 80 years of experience between us. It sounds like phansford has a bit of time under his belt as well as many other of us geezers on the forum.

If you want a seriously reliable, old school, well built amp go with a vintage Champ. If you want disposable modern landfill material go with the 600. JMO YMMV


Listen to Supro - he knows his stuff. I've got a '73 and it's great. Not super gain-y, but does take pedals very well and I even use it during full band jams.

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Post subject: Re: Fender Champion 600?
Posted: Fri Dec 24, 2010 9:52 pm
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Clapton used Champs when he recorded the Derek and the Dominoes album, no need to be an arse to the guy who suggested his amp captured some of that sound. I realize you have your opinion, but you really come across as a pushy jerk in a lot of your posts.


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Post subject: Re: Fender Champion 600?
Posted: Fri Dec 24, 2010 10:37 pm
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candycoke09 wrote:
Clapton used Champs when he recorded the Derek and the Dominoes album, no need to be an arse to the guy who suggested his amp captured some of that sound. I realize you have your opinion, but you really come across as a pushy jerk in a lot of your posts.


Who are you referring to?


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Post subject: Re: Fender Champion 600?
Posted: Sun Dec 26, 2010 3:53 am
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Fender Champs are great amps, the historic ones are the original hand wired ones with a rectifier tube. Those are the ones people refer to when talking about historical recordings. The chiamps today are a whole different animal with pcbs and a whole lot of components. The sound between them are also different.

If you seek value, understand that any pcb tube board or solid state amp will not increase in value. However, a vintage champ earlier than the 80s will either remain the same or increase in value. And it will out live a modern champ.

For example, this is an anatomy of a modern Fender Vibro Champ XD. Because of it's complex and fragile components, it will fail. Hopefully within the 5 years of the warranty. So I can get a new one.

Image

The insides of a hand wired Champ has way less components and is built a lot stronger than this modern vibro champ. When the vintage Champ breaks down, parts can be replaced.


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Post subject: Re: Fender Champion 600?
Posted: Sun Dec 26, 2010 11:10 am
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If you notice that Pb with a "No" symbol around it you'll realize why Fender's not making a lot of hard-wired amps anymore. To comply with the eco-police, they're trying to stop using lead. I've seen a lot of machines using PCB's last a very long time. I used to deal with dialysis machines that had more than 50,000 hours of run-time without replacing any of the circuit boards. If you don't jump up and down on it like EVH, generally abuse it(opening it up without a ground strap on your wrist for example), or get it wet, it should last a very long while.


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