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Posted: Mon Jan 21, 2008 7:14 am
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Tube amps can usually cut a mix a bit better than a ss amp. I own and gig with both. Tube amps are heavier, but I wouldn't say more fragile. They do require maintenance. Most of the ss amps to me, sound sterile, which is not always a bad thing, Jazz guys love the clean. As far as effects go, I'd rather use pedals. Half of the effects in the ss amps are useless to me anyway.

Tube amps survive to this day because of their complex tonal qualities that are almost impossible to capture in a modeling amp. Why do you think manufacturers try to emulate tube amps? Don't get me wrong, I'm not saying ss amps are bad sounding, just different.


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Posted: Mon Jan 21, 2008 7:30 am
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I just bought an SS and have to say that i'm happt enough with it for the moment. I am sure I eventually move towards tube

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Posted: Mon Jan 21, 2008 7:37 am
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I just bought an SS and have to say that i'm happy enough with it for the moment. I am sure I eventually will move towards tube

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Posted: Mon Jan 21, 2008 8:24 am
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If you like it that's all that counts. I play in several blues bands and really don't need all the bells and whistles and a tube amp gives me the tonal qualities I desire. I practice with a GDEC. I usually turn off most of the effects.


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Posted: Mon Jan 21, 2008 11:39 am
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I find a slight tonal advantage to a tube amp when I'm playing for myself. But when I gig, I use a solid state amp. The reason is I perform as a one man band with backing tracks, etc., and I don't need brute power to cut through the mix. And the people I play for (older folks) really can't hear the difference between tubes and transistors. So I go with the lighter and less expensive solid state modelling amps. And some of these amps come very close to the hallowed tube sound.

Still, in the privacy of my den, I'll fire up my Twin Reverb and bask in tube tone heaven.

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Standard Stratocaster; Standard Telecaster; Gibson Flying V; Epiphone Dot; OLP TinTop. Fender amps: Twin Reverb 15, Deluxe 900, GDEC 30, Super Champ XD, Mini-Twin; Others: Line 6 Spider III; Crate DXJ112; Peavey Renown; Ashdown Fallen Angel FA50.


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Posted: Mon Jan 21, 2008 12:10 pm
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That's the whole thing you use what you need. I had a Twin for over 30 years. I no longer needed 100 watts so sadly, I sold it. It was also a heavy amp. I just got a GDEC as a gift and I really enjoy it. Still, I really love my 70 SF Champ. I have a Hot Rod Deluxe, that I have a love/hate relationship with. It's not the most reliable amp I've ever owned. A Twin is just so clean at lower volumes you won't hear much difference but if you use a Fender Deluxe 5e3 that is total tonal nirvana. Nothing like a Tweed. None of the Tweed amp models even come close to the complex tonal dynamics of the Tweeds.


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Posted: Mon Jan 21, 2008 1:38 pm
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Aspiring Musician
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So the first stage of the 12AX7 is producing a level/voltage gain?


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Posted: Mon Jan 21, 2008 2:07 pm
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Yes. The solid-state stage before produces about half a volt, not enough to drive the phase inverter. The 12AX7 stage kicks it up to around 1.5V.


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Posted: Mon Jan 21, 2008 3:46 pm
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Interesting. So the classic hybrid with just power tubes is missing perhaps a little of the 12AX7's warming/compressing/even harmonics in the SC? Even though it's not really a preamp component.

I've always felt the 6V6 is the perfect mate to a solid-state front end as it is well-known to have exceptional warmth, dynamics and soak-friendly harmonics. The perfect antidote to frosty digital steeliness. That's the magic of the SCXD, you wonder where the ice pick went.


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Posted: Mon Jan 21, 2008 3:57 pm
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Even with the excellent modeling products and vast improvements in solid state, there is still no subsitute for the sonic experience of tube amplification.


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Posted: Mon Jan 21, 2008 10:40 pm
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thanks for all the info. i think i'll just get a fender champion 600 or a crate v5 to start out with


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Post subject: Tube Vs. Solid State
Posted: Thu Jan 24, 2008 8:11 am
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Wish I had found the articles referenced below earlier in the postings, but better late than never.

My first amps were SS. Reading all the glowing (no pun intended) accounts of the superior sounds to be had with tube amps, and wishing to have the best sound available within reasonable cost limitations, I have since purchased two tube amps. I love them, but I must admit that I thought I was lacking because I did not recognize the 'obvious' superiority of their sound!

I know that the tube-purists who read these articles will dismiss them as incorrect, but they (at least the second one) interject some objectivity in comparing the two types:

http://answers.google.com/answers/threadview?id=743593

http://www.epinions.com/content_3726614660

If I may summarize the second, and hopefully do not misinterpret any of its results:
*No difference in sound can be detected in the clean nor significantly distorted modes.
*The claim that differences in 'mild' clipping (overdrive) can be detected is suspect in that many of the listeners incorrectly labeled Tube amps as SS and vice versa.
*SS amps have advanced in design and are expected to continue to do so to the point where virtually no one with any amount of true objectivity will be able to tell the difference.

I see this as a good thing, since it will mean lower costs, less weight, more effects available, higher reliability, and greater convenience.

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Post subject: my 2 cents
Posted: Thu Jan 24, 2008 9:41 am
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I would have to say analog/tube signal is the way to go...i used a Digitech GNX3 for a while without analog pedals for a long time...i decided i would try out some analog pedals and see how they sound...well needless to say i only use the GNX3 now to record riffs, rhythms etc. and have been increasing my analog pedal collection as much as i can

This really doesn't have to do with tubes vs. SS but to me the analog signal not digital is the key to a great sounding rig...i agree with an earlier post that digital effects just sound to fake and manipulated...not natural like an analog effect does

-stratdude83

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Post subject: Re: Tube Vs. Solid State
Posted: Thu Jan 24, 2008 3:56 pm
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RVM lead wrote:
Wish I had found the articles referenced below earlier in the postings, but better late than never.

My first amps were SS. Reading all the glowing (no pun intended) accounts of the superior sounds to be had with tube amps, and wishing to have the best sound available within reasonable cost limitations, I have since purchased two tube amps. I love them, but I must admit that I thought I was lacking because I did not recognize the 'obvious' superiority of their sound!

I know that the tube-purists who read these articles will dismiss them as incorrect, but they (at least the second one) interject some objectivity in comparing the two types:

http://answers.google.com/answers/threadview?id=743593

http://www.epinions.com/content_3726614660

If I may summarize the second, and hopefully do not misinterpret any of its results:
*No difference in sound can be detected in the clean nor significantly distorted modes.
*The claim that differences in 'mild' clipping (overdrive) can be detected is suspect in that many of the listeners incorrectly labeled Tube amps as SS and vice versa.
*SS amps have advanced in design and are expected to continue to do so to the point where virtually no one with any amount of true objectivity will be able to tell the difference.

I see this as a good thing, since it will mean lower costs, less weight, more effects available, higher reliability, and greater convenience.


Like every study, you forgot the part about natural tube overdrive being easily discernible (“Tube Amps” continue to rule when it comes to its’ mild overdrive soft clipping sound and tone!") that contradicts your viewpoint.

And while I don't think there is anything wrong with solid state, I can tell you that Line 6 Spider amps have a very digital sound to them. But I do agree with you that SS has some significant advantages over tube amps.

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Post subject:
Posted: Thu Jan 24, 2008 4:17 pm
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Aspiring Musician
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The ability for tube amps to handle enormous transients well into distortion range makes for a radically different sound and response from your plucked note. It's also what gives the tube amps way more perceived volume for a given wattage over solid state.

Add in the even harmonics that tubes produce and it's a world of difference. All kinds of SS toys and tricks and preamp stages try to emulate tubes, but they never really do.


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