It is currently Mon Mar 16, 2020 2:54 pm

All times are UTC - 7 hours



Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 39 posts ]  Go to page 1, 2, 3  Next
Go to page 1, 2, 3  Next
Author Message
Post subject: Tube Vs. Solid State
Posted: Sat Jan 19, 2008 8:30 pm
Offline
Hobbyist
Hobbyist
User avatar

Joined: Sun Jan 06, 2008 11:35 pm
Posts: 83
What is the difference between tube amps and solid state? (besides the obvious, that one uses tubes and one doesnt)


Top
Profile
Fender Play Winter Sale 2020
Post subject:
Posted: Sat Jan 19, 2008 10:47 pm
Offline
Aspiring Musician
Aspiring Musician

Joined: Thu Jun 21, 2007 10:46 am
Posts: 634
SS has a brilliant, sharp presence, no lag, an immediacy, a crisp steely edge certain players like BB King, Albert King (RIP), John Mclaughlin and others like.

The downside is that digital distortion is ugly, and the tone lacks dynamics and warmth. A solid state amp can leave you cold, and it really highlights bad playing. SS amps are hard on posers.

Tubes are all about harmonic complexity, picking dynamics, warmth and responsiveness. Overdriving a tube amp has an indescribable delicious feel, and a thumpy, percussive sound with a ton of even harmonics that defines rock and blues itself.


Top
Profile
Post subject:
Posted: Sun Jan 20, 2008 7:18 am
Offline
Hobbyist
Hobbyist

Joined: Sat Jan 19, 2008 8:29 am
Posts: 11
I was a solid state guy for about 10 years. I always had nice guitars, but crappy amps. When I decided I was in the market for new amps but only had a few hundred dollars, I gravitated toward the Line 6 and Vox SS modeling amps. At first these amps seemed pretty cool. But here's the thing: SS amps are sterile and lack any sort of feeling.

And Line 6 Spiders feel very fake to me. I ended up buying a Peavey Valveking ( :? ) and then later a Fender HRD. I strongly suggest playing a tube amp and then playing a Line 6- the difference will be immediate.

One potential disadvantage with tube amps is that they sound better the louder they get (at least to a point)...which can be a problem if you have neighbors. My HRD is 40 watts and is way freakin' louder than my old crappy 80 watt Crate. Price is the other obvious issue. Tube amps cost a lot more than SS amps. But there are some more affordable tube amps. Just look at the Epi Valve Junior...250 bucks buys you a 5 watt Class A all-tube half stack. And that is a powerful 5 watts.

Go tube or go home!

_________________
Fender Highway 1 Strat
Gibson Les Paul Standard
Gibson Les Paul Classic
Gibson Les Paul Studio
Gibson SG Standard
Dunlop Crybaby Wah
Boss ME-50
Fender Hot Rod Deluxe


Top
Profile
Post subject:
Posted: Sun Jan 20, 2008 12:34 pm
Offline
Aspiring Musician
Aspiring Musician

Joined: Thu Jun 21, 2007 10:46 am
Posts: 634
And SS amps are about half the volume of tube amps for a given wattage.

Yeah, once you directly A to B comparo a solid state vs. a tube amp at volume, it's over. Tubes feel good, trannies don't.

But tubes burn out and are fragile. They can die suddenly, or agonizingly with various microphonics and noises. They're living things, like sea monkeys. Pet them and praise them a lot. They deserve it.


Last edited by Maruuk on Sun Jan 20, 2008 4:52 pm, edited 2 times in total.

Top
Profile
Post subject:
Posted: Sun Jan 20, 2008 1:08 pm
Offline
Rock Star
Rock Star
User avatar

Joined: Tue Aug 07, 2007 2:19 pm
Posts: 8827
The volume thing is true. A 50 watt ss amp is nowhere near as loud as a tube amp of the same wattage.


Top
Profile
Post subject:
Posted: Sun Jan 20, 2008 1:30 pm
Offline
Hobbyist
Hobbyist
User avatar

Joined: Sat Aug 25, 2007 9:01 am
Posts: 9
Location: Oklahoma City, Oklahoma
some of the old fender SS amps actually werent too bad.


Top
Profile
Post subject:
Posted: Sun Jan 20, 2008 2:44 pm
Offline
Hobbyist
Hobbyist

Joined: Sat Jan 19, 2008 8:29 am
Posts: 11
1appleipod wrote:
some of the old fender SS amps actually werent too bad.


Not all SS amps are bad. But I personally think that tube amps are better. But I admit that the Vox modeling amps can be cool - effects and amp models built in. And the price tag ain't bad either. And price is usually the limiting factor.

But they will never sound the way a tube amp sounds when you hit the sweet spot.

_________________
Fender Highway 1 Strat
Gibson Les Paul Standard
Gibson Les Paul Classic
Gibson Les Paul Studio
Gibson SG Standard
Dunlop Crybaby Wah
Boss ME-50
Fender Hot Rod Deluxe


Top
Profile
Post subject:
Posted: Sun Jan 20, 2008 4:55 pm
Offline
Aspiring Musician
Aspiring Musician

Joined: Thu Jun 21, 2007 10:46 am
Posts: 634
Now you've got the SCXD with both a tube preamp and power amp section fronted by a digital DSP modeling engine. Best of both worlds? Some think so.


Top
Profile
Post subject:
Posted: Sun Jan 20, 2008 6:30 pm
Offline
Hobbyist
Hobbyist

Joined: Mon Jul 23, 2007 6:53 pm
Posts: 71
I think it's worth clarifying the preamp thing--the Super Champ XD doesn't really have a tube preamp. It does have a tube stage before the phase inverter, but it's there primarily to buffer and do the conversion from solid state to tube. It's a standard Fender-style preamp gain stage, and it doubtless adds some warmth just because it's a tube. But traditional amp design places the preamp stages before the tone stack. All of the preamplification and tone stack operations in the SCXD are performed by solid state devices and the DSP chip.

This is more properly a post-tone, post-effects driver/buffer, not a preamp.

None of which is a bad thing. The SCXD has awesome, tubey tone. Apart from some extraneous hiss on some of the effects, the amp is quiet and well-mannered. It's certainly quieter than your run-of-the-mill Pro Junior.


Top
Profile
Post subject:
Posted: Sun Jan 20, 2008 8:40 pm
Offline
Aspiring Musician
Aspiring Musician

Joined: Thu Jun 21, 2007 10:46 am
Posts: 634
Wait, I'm sure you mentioned in an earlier post that the 12AX7 in the SCXD adds quite a bit of gain. Now the tone stack order may be changed, and there is gain from the DSP element, but how is the tube not a preamp element if it adds gain in the preamp stage?


Top
Profile
Post subject:
Posted: Sun Jan 20, 2008 9:07 pm
Offline
Hobbyist
Hobbyist

Joined: Mon Jul 23, 2007 6:53 pm
Posts: 71
A preamp stage is exactly that--a pre-amplifier. The 12AX7 stage before the phase inverter is more of a postamp!

Yes, it has gain, yes it adds some tube warmth. No, it is in no way a preamplifier. Preamp stages are what the signal sees first. This is what it sees last, before the power stage.

Don't try to make the SCXD more of a tube amp than it is--the job of that stage is to take the voltage from the solid state stages and boost it up to something strong enough to drive the phase inverter.


Top
Profile
Post subject: Tube vs. Solid State
Posted: Sun Jan 20, 2008 9:14 pm
Offline
Professional Musician
Professional Musician
User avatar

Joined: Fri Nov 09, 2007 7:46 am
Posts: 1019
Location: State of Confusion
When you consider all the pros and cons of tubes versus SS, I think there is only really one advantage to the tube amp...TONE. All the other advantages go to SS.

Tube amps are more costly, more fragile (both to handling and to temperature extremes), heavier, and in pure tube form- without effects. TV's and radios don't use tubes anymore, so ask yourself why...all the above reasons except for the tone.

I own two SS (one Fender and one Crate) and two Fender tube amps and I like them all. If your musical style/choice is one that really shows up the tone (such as Blues) the difference can be quite noticeable, but with a lot of music, it can hardly be noticed (I know many will disagree on this point). A very high percentage of players use effects and they are predominantly SS. I don't see the point in having a tube amp and using SS effects in the chain as it does a lot to negate the tone advantage.

There are a lot of good sounding SS amps on the market today and they have their place in many genre of music, especially for the beginners and intermediate players.

For beginners, it's really convenient to grab the handle of a lighter, less fragile, less costly, DSP equipped amp and head out to jam with friends, or play some open mics, etc. and not have to take along effect pedals.

Don't be a "Tube Snob" and think that it's the only way to go.

_________________
The quintessential sound of 60/70's R&R:
Fender Tube Amps
Gibson Guitars


Top
Profile
Post subject:
Posted: Mon Jan 21, 2008 12:07 am
Offline
Aspiring Musician
Aspiring Musician

Joined: Thu Jun 21, 2007 10:46 am
Posts: 634
Clean it can be very hard to tell the dif between ss and tube. A lot of jazz guys used to use Polytone amps, or Roland JCs. Once you grind it up, ss's get uglee. Tubes get beautiful.

So Bill, you're saying that the main preamp GAIN is from what you hit first, the DSP. That's really the preamp stage. The 12AX7 kicks voltage and is a phase inverter which is actually all POST the preamp stage. So the 12AX7 is really a kind of regulator for the power stage.


Top
Profile
Post subject:
Posted: Mon Jan 21, 2008 6:35 am
Offline
Hobbyist
Hobbyist

Joined: Mon Jul 23, 2007 6:53 pm
Posts: 71
Not a regulator--that's something else entirely when you're talking electronics. :)

The first stage of the 12AX7 could either be called a driver or a level converter. The second stage is a concertina phase inverter. That's all.


Top
Profile
Post subject: Re: Tube vs. Solid State
Posted: Mon Jan 21, 2008 6:42 am
Offline
Hobbyist
Hobbyist

Joined: Sat Jan 19, 2008 8:29 am
Posts: 11
RVM lead wrote:
When you consider all the pros and cons of tubes versus SS, I think there is only really one advantage to the tube amp...TONE. All the other advantages go to SS.

Tube amps are more costly, more fragile (both to handling and to temperature extremes), heavier, and in pure tube form- without effects. TV's and radios don't use tubes anymore, so ask yourself why...all the above reasons except for the tone.

I own two SS (one Fender and one Crate) and two Fender tube amps and I like them all. If your musical style/choice is one that really shows up the tone (such as Blues) the difference can be quite noticeable, but with a lot of music, it can hardly be noticed (I know many will disagree on this point). A very high percentage of players use effects and they are predominantly SS. I don't see the point in having a tube amp and using SS effects in the chain as it does a lot to negate the tone advantage.

There are a lot of good sounding SS amps on the market today and they have their place in many genre of music, especially for the beginners and intermediate players.

For beginners, it's really convenient to grab the handle of a lighter, less fragile, less costly, DSP equipped amp and head out to jam with friends, or play some open mics, etc. and not have to take along effect pedals.

Don't be a "Tube Snob" and think that it's the only way to go.


The built in effects/tone settings can be cool but anyone with any experience can hear how digital they sound. Perhaps this doesn't bother some, but it somehow sounds fake to me. I also think that it's important to pair a good guitar with a good amp. But I agree that SS amps are a helluva lot more convenient in almost every way. As always, it is in the ear of the beholder.

_________________
Fender Highway 1 Strat
Gibson Les Paul Standard
Gibson Les Paul Classic
Gibson Les Paul Studio
Gibson SG Standard
Dunlop Crybaby Wah
Boss ME-50
Fender Hot Rod Deluxe


Top
Profile
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 39 posts ]  Go to page 1, 2, 3  Next
Go to page 1, 2, 3  Next

All times are UTC - 7 hours

Fender Play Winter Sale 2020

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 2 guests


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum

Search for:
Jump to: