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Post subject: Blues Dlx.RI vs. Hot RodDlx. III vs. Dlx.VM ?
Posted: Mon Dec 06, 2010 2:44 am
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So I'm sitting here on a Sunday night, with my '68 Gibson ES-335 plugged into a brand new Fender Blues Deluxe Re-Issue, just noodling around and generally having a wonderful time. It's the first decent amp I've had to handle this marvelous guitar in 13 years. The dogs are really mad, the cat's hiding, and I'm in knob-tweaking heaven.

Predictably, my music is mostly '60's & '70's rock, folk-rock, country-ish flavored ballads ... the "heaviest" & "dirtiest" I get is maybe a bit of Mark Knopfler, Clapton, Allman Bros., and of course GOGD. Clean is good. Cleaner is better. I do use some mild "drive" on some lead stuff, but even at that my "dirtiest" is likely cleaner than many amps' cleanest sound . . . So I'm looking more for a variety of melodic, "singing" tones than I am yer basic machine shop blues. :roll: :wink:

Unsurprisingly, the amp sounds a bit different than it did in the store. Maybe a slight bit more "nasal," and less well-defined. I haven't gotten past baby steps in learning the best settings, but at this point the bass seems a tiny bit "boomy."

And there is more than a bit of hissssssss/hummm -- not overbearing, but definitely there about half the time.

Overall, though, I really like this amp. (I'm not ready to spring for a DRRI -- even used -- at this point.) I'll also readily admit that I can't even begin to tap the BDRI's potential at home/practice until I get an Omnisonic volume control box, but the part I can hear, I like.

I had actually gone to Guitar Center to cross-compare the two little Blues Jr. amps ("NOS" & III) alongside the Hot Rod Deluxe III. I'd called ahead, and the very nice kid had it all set up ... except he'd mis-remembered and set up the BDRI instead of the HR Deluxe III.

As far as the HR Blues Jr. models were concerned, I liked the new BJ-III much better than the much "muddier" BJ-NOS, played w/my ES-335's humbuckers. But I didn't the kid's setup mistake until I'd become convinced that as nice as both of the little Blues Jr. amps were, they didn't do justice to my vintage Gibson anywhere near as well as the BDRI.

So I bought the one that sounded best, and I was home playing the BDRI before I realized that I hadn't even tested the HR Deluxe III. Always one to triple-second-guess a purchase like this (before the 30 day trial is up), I revisited the GC & Fender websites tonight to review the differences between the BDRI and the HRD-III, and also had a look at the hybrid regular Deluxe III.

Hmmm . . .
There's something there for everybody. On paper the hybrid Deluxe VM looks the most versatile; it's $50 more than the BDRI, but that's no biggie.
I am especially wondering about the speaker differences: the two Deluxe models (VM & HRIII) use the Celestion G12P-80, whereas the BDRI comes with a "Special Design" Eminence speaker -- which could mean ... what??

A summary of the specs are below.

For those here who have played any of these -- what do you like? what do you think?

For the rest of you -- any observations regarding the different specs ... especially regarding the different "channel" arrangements, and the relative worth of all-tube versus hybrid amps (w/Chorus & Delay).

As usual: Thanks.

=======================

Fender Blues Deluxe ReIssue (BDRI)
All-Tube Amp
$750 new/street

> 40w / 2-6L6 tubes
> 2 Input jacks (normal + low-sensitivity)
> Separate On/Off & Standby switches
> External speaker jack
> 2 channels (Normal & Drive) - footswitchable
> Reverb on both channels - footswitchable

> NORMAL CHANNEL:
> Volume
> Bass+Mid+Treble (shared with Drive channel)

> DRIVE CHANNEL:
> Drive (volume)
> Master volume
> "Presence" control
> Normal & Bright switch
> Two-button footswitch
(remote channel selection, Reverb on-off)
> 2 Effects Loop Jacks:
Preamp-Out + PowerAmp-In

> Speaker: 1x12" Special Design Eminence 8ohm 50W
------------------------

Fender Hot Rod Deluxe III 40W
All-Tube Amp
$700 new/street
> 2 Input jacks (normal + low-sensitivity)
> Separate On/Off & Standby switches
> External speaker jack
> 3 Channels (Normal + Drive + MoreDrive) -
footswitchable
[NOTE: Is it just me, or does Fender's calling the "MoreDrive" switchable option seem maybe a bit less than a true third channel?]
> Reverb on all 3 channels

> NORMAL CHANNEL (Ch.1):
> Volume
> Bass+Mid+Treble (shared with Drive channel)

> DRIVE CHANNEL (Ch.2):
> Drive (volume)
> Master volume
> "Presence" control
> Normal & Bright switch

> MORE-DRIVE CHANNEL:

> Two-button footswitch
(remote channel selection:
Normal-Drive-MoreDrive)
> 2 Effects Loop Jacks:
Preamp-Out + PowerAmp-In

> Speaker: 1-12" Celestion® G12P-80, 8 Ohm

------------------------

Fender Deluxe VM
Hybrid Tube/SolidState amp
$ 800 new/street

> 40w / 2-6L6 tubes
> 1 Input jack
> Separate On/Off & Standby switches
> 2 External speaker jacks
> 2 channels (Normal + Drive + MoreDrive) -
footswitchable
> Reverb on all 3 channels

> NORMAL CHANNEL:
> Volume adjust knob
> Bass+Mid+Treble Pre-Gain tone controls

> DRIVE/EFFECTS CHANNEL:
> Channel select switch
> Gain adjust knob
> Volume Adjust knob
> Bass+Mid+Treble Post-Gain EQ adjust
> Reverb Adjust knob
> Effects Adjust on/off switch
> Time/Rate Adjust knobs
> Delay - on/off switch
> Mix Adjust knobs
> Chorus - on/off switch
> Depth Adjust knob
> 4 button footswitch
(Channel, Reverb, Delay, and Chorus/Vibrato)
> 2 Effects Loop Jacks (Send + Receive)

> Speaker: 1-12" Celestion® G12P-80, 8 Ohm

------------------------

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Last edited by bobwords on Sat Dec 11, 2010 2:17 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Post subject:
Posted: Mon Dec 06, 2010 6:54 am
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A gently used DRRI will cost less than any of the amps you listed and will sound light years better. Your 335 will sing with it. It should a;so have the balance of any warranty left on it.
Also I highly recommend both Egnater, I own the Rebel 20, and the new Jet City amps. I've been playing for over 40 years had tons of amps and the Egnater is up there with some of the finest I've ever owned and so far has been rock solid reliable.

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Post subject:
Posted: Mon Dec 06, 2010 7:08 am
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63supro wrote:
A gently used DRRI will cost less than any of the amps you listed and will sound light years better.


+1

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Post subject:
Posted: Mon Dec 06, 2010 7:26 am
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The thing that bothers me about the VM series besides it being a hybrid with cheesy effects, is the small output trannies. Side by side the Deluxe VM doesn't seem as loud as other 40 watt amps. Might just be me though. As everyone knows around here, you'll never see me recommend a HRD series amp. The hiss and fizz more fizz drive channel on these amps is horrible and mine had extremely poor reliability though my HRDlx wasn't a III series. If you think it hisses now, wait till you get some time on the tubes. 60's and 70's music would sound great with your 335 and a 65 DRRI. The original 65 Deluxe was used on so many recordings and was the mainstay of thousands of serious gigging and session musicians.

Also, here's a great reference site. http://www.justinholton.com/hotrod/

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Posted: Mon Dec 06, 2010 7:37 am
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Miami Mike wrote:
63supro wrote:
A gently used DRRI will cost less than any of the amps you listed and will sound light years better.


+1


......And last light years longer.

Arjay

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Post subject:
Posted: Mon Dec 06, 2010 7:37 am
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I'll have to second what the other members above have said about the HRD series amps. I had an HRD III for almost two months - thought it was useable certainly, sounded decent on the clean channel, but was too loud for my liking. On a whim I went back to GC and spent some serious time with a brand new DRRI - seriously light years ahead of any Hot Rod series amp in every stretch of the imagination. If you can swing it go for a DRRI or maybe a Princeton Reverb Reissue.


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Post subject:
Posted: Mon Dec 06, 2010 8:49 am
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Hi bobwords,

Since you were clear that you weren't ready for a DRRI, and asked for opinions of the 3 amps that you listed, I'd say that you made the right choice. The BDRI is used for many Custom Shop amps too. The BDRI is a nice amp as is, and could even be improved with some 30 watt output tubes, properly biased of course, that is if your amp came with the 25 watt Sovteks 5881s (likely). I am happy with my stock tubes in my HRDlx (Sovtek 5881), but for a change I like the GT 6L6 S, others like the JJ 6L6, but either might be an improvement if you feel the need to change the sound. :idea:

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Post subject:
Posted: Mon Dec 06, 2010 9:58 am
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The BDRI sounds great and contrary to some on this site some of us out there like the BDRI better than the DRRI.

Not trying to pick a fight just offering balance.


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Posted: Mon Dec 06, 2010 11:43 am
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I LOVE my DRRI, and I LOVE my 335. But if it's clean you want with your 335 the DRRI might not be the right amp for you IMO. Don't get me wrong, my 335 sounds amazing through the DRRI but there isn't a lot of headroom... with a Strat it starts to break up around 5-6, with the 335 around 3-4 and it screams! For home use 2-3 volume level might be enough though, or you can keep the vol down on you 335.

Your BDRI will sound much better with a different speaker. I used to find mine boomy with the 335 also, make sure you turn down the bass. I put a Celestion V30 in mine and it sounded very sweet.


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Posted: Mon Dec 06, 2010 1:29 pm
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cedarblues wrote:
I LOVE my DRRI, and I LOVE my 335. But if it's clean you want with your 335 the DRRI might not be the right amp for you IMO. Don't get me wrong, my 335 sounds amazing through the DRRI but there isn't a lot of headroom... with a Strat it starts to break up around 5-6, with the 335 around 3-4 and it screams! For home use 2-3 volume level might be enough though, or you can keep the vol down on you 335.

Your BDRI will sound much better with a different speaker. I used to find mine boomy with the 335 also, make sure you turn down the bass. I put a Celestion V30 in mine and it sounded very sweet.


Agreed. You already indicate you like the BDRI. A brighter speaker like the V30 (or others) will be the single best thing you could do for the amp. The eminence special design sounds a bit muddy. Also, try turning the bass down to 3 and mid up to 7 and treble to taste. Enjoy your amp. It would serve you well for years.


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Posted: Thu Dec 09, 2010 1:56 am
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All excellent information, and good advice.
I have no doubt that a more suitable speaker could have vastly improved the overly bass-biased sound of the BDRI -- but there's something about having to modify (for significant $$) a brand new product just to make it useable for my own applications that, well . . .

Actually, as noted in a New Topic thread today, I took the BDRI back to GC, commandeered their nice quiet Acoustic Guitar room, and cross-tested the BDRI against two other BDRI's and against several other amps.

The clear winner -- my new amp that came home with me and won't let me go long enough to get much else done: the Egnater Rebel-30.

It blasted my amp-budget totally out of the water, but it's worth every penny. Check out my ravings about it on this Thread:
PAINFUL ADMISSION: 63Supro was right !!
(started Wed., Dec.9th).

And yes: thanks for all the advice and help, guys!

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Last edited by bobwords on Sat Dec 11, 2010 2:19 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Posted: Thu Dec 09, 2010 5:27 am
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As I've got a BDRI I can say that it sounds very good with my Tele, not bad with my Casino and really bad with my Washburn (rare hawk bought in 1981). I can say the it is the quiest amp I never had --> No hum at all and no hiss even after 3 on the volume (few reverb)
Actually, the Tele is single coil, Casino single coil "high level" and the Wash hum-bucker very high level. I notice that the Wash has too much bass !
I compare with my vox and it is the opposite (I've also other guitars but not relevant in the comparison); May be Fender has a design fitting more with their products. May be also BDRI is design to be "colored" as TV in a show room when there is more color, the customer can interprete as better. At last it is a competion between sound-cost-brand awareness-reliability-style-instruments: the customer is the last decider. In the 80th I bought a JCM 800 combo 50W and I've been so desappointed ! Still the sound quest ... :wink: Next target is '57 deluxe ?

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Posted: Thu Dec 09, 2010 7:54 am
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That was quite a big transition, going from "Overall, though, I really like this amp" (BDRI), then to "unacceptable hiss/hum...terribly over-boomy bass ", after reading some negative opinions about the BDRI. :?:

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Posted: Thu Dec 09, 2010 9:34 am
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I have a BDRI equipped with the following tube set from Eurotubes:

Fender Blues Deluxe-Deville Blues Option
Price: $66.25
Description: A hotter matched pair of the JJ 6L6GC's for the reissue or the original fixed bias 90's Blues Deluxe or Deville for a big warm tone along with a standard ECC83S for V1, an ECC81 for V2 to drop the gain with one balanced ECC83S for the phase inverter in V3. These will reduce the preamp gain for players wanting less gain.

I have the power tubes biased at 37 ma per tube (414 vDC plate volatage), and it absolutely sings. No harshness at all and my desire for a new speaker has gone down significantly. I run my SCN equipped Strat through the non-master volume channel (using input #2) and my GFS Fat Pat humbucker equipped "Lyon by Washburn" (a $50 guitar show find), through the master volume channel (also through input #2). With the tubes I am using, there is very little overdrive in the master volume channel although the humbuckers do have a little bit of grit to them depending on how I set the gain control. I use a Monte Allums H2O Plus modded BD-2 and a Monte Allums Supra Plus modded OD-3 for dirt, along with a Monte Allums Ultra Plus modded CS-3 compressor.

I won't try to tell anyone that the BDRI is the best thing since sex, but I will say that it produces the exact tones I am after, I am very happy with it, and see no reason to use any other amp. YMMV.

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Posted: Thu Dec 09, 2010 10:06 am
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bluesky636, which speaker came with your BD?

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