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Post subject: Using Fender Frontman 212R as a 2x12" speaker cabnit
Posted: Sun Dec 05, 2010 3:44 pm
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I have an older model Frontman 212R and I am getting sick of the volume sensitivity and the overall lack of tone in the drive channel and so on...

I want to move on to a nice tube amp, but tube combo amps are very pricey and I don't want to be limited to combo; I'd rather have an amp head that I could later buy a nice speaker cab for when my income rises 8) ....

Basically I wanted to know from some of you tech savvy dudes out there whether it would be a good idea to pursue using my Frontman's 2 12" speaker cab along with a nice tube amp head. The clean channel on the amp is nice and the speakers seem to be good quality, but I don't know if this would be a wise idea or not.

The reason I want to try it is because I want to keep the frontman (mainly to mess around with the circuit and because the resale prices on those amps are pretty bad)

Thanks!


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Posted: Sun Dec 05, 2010 3:55 pm
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Hi bms5298,

That's a great idea! I'm thinking of the same thing for my next amp purchase, a head to go with my speaker cabinet. You just have to match the impedance of amp and speaker cab, and make sure that your speakers are enough wattage to handle the head that you choose. I'm looking at the Egnator Rebel 30 head myself, which has an impedance selector switch to use with different speakers. :)

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Posted: Sun Dec 05, 2010 4:01 pm
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shimmilou wrote:
Hi bms5298,

That's a great idea! I'm thinking of the same thing for my next amp purchase, a head to go with my speaker cabinet. You just have to match the impedance of amp and speaker cab, and make sure that your speakers are enough wattage to handle the head that you choose. I'm looking at the Egnator Rebel 30 head myself, which has an impedance selector switch to use with different speakers. :)


Cool! I was looking at Egnator as well, seem to have some good models. Quick question though, how would I go about doing something like this :?:


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Posted: Sun Dec 05, 2010 4:53 pm
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Looking at the schematic, it looks like your amp is hard wired to the speakers, without a jack. If that is the case, you should get a speaker jack to hook to the internal speakers. Disconnect the wires from the internal speakers (just the two wires that go to the amp, mark the polarity if it isn't already marked, + white, and - black) and tape off each wire separately with electrical tape to prevent any contact, and tie those two wires off to the side as you won't be using the amp. Connect the two terminals on the speaker, that you disconnected the wires from, to the speaker jack, using a couple of short wires similar in size to the ones still on the speaker. Make the wires long enough to reach the back panel if you want to mount the jack there. The + connects to the tip terminal, the negative to the sleeve terminal. It would be a good idea to mount the jack, maybe in the back panel of the amp cab. Just a standard, two terminal input jack would work. Like this one for example (link below). Once wired and mounted, just use a speaker cable with phone plug on each end, and connect speaker to amp by plugging into the jacks on each. Make sure to use speaker cable, not instrument cable. If you already have a speaker jack on the amp, just unplug the speaker plug from the amp, and connect the speakers to the new amps output jack. Looks like your speakers are 4 ohms together (8 ohms each speaker, in parallel is 4 ohms) :)

http://angela.com/genuineswitchcraftstandard14guitarinputjackwithextralongthreadedbushing.aspx

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Post subject: Sweet!
Posted: Sun Dec 05, 2010 5:59 pm
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Wow dude thanks a lot for the info! I'll def. mess around with some old heads first to see if I can get it to work, but this will be a big help. :D


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Posted: Mon Dec 06, 2010 4:30 am
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Not sure but...you may need some type of load on the amp in case you turn it on by mistake without a speaker connected. Someone else would know more about this.

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Posted: Mon Dec 06, 2010 4:49 am
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if you are going to mess around with valve heads its important to make sure you have speakers connected, the amp will survive a little bit but you can damage the valves and amp, the amp needs the load of the speeker... ive rebuild valve amps before... dont run it with out speakers, if you dont have a cabnet to test it on but you just want to see if the amp is working, make sure the standby switch is on...


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Posted: Mon Dec 06, 2010 6:53 am
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Good thinking tyronne and da rok! The FM is a solid state amp though, it's OK and no need to even be plugged in when used as a cabinet. :)

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Posted: Mon Dec 06, 2010 11:31 am
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If the 212R has a fuse, take it out and tape it inside the cab somewhere. :)
That should prevent any accidental power on with the speakers disconnected.

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Posted: Mon Dec 06, 2010 11:39 am
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Simply disconnect the power cord from the rear of the amp -- the chassis end is a removable IEC connector, used specifically for this purpose.

DUH!

Arjay

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Posted: Mon Dec 06, 2010 11:48 am
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Pretty good Retroverbial! :lol: But, just to be even more sure, fill in the socket with silicon and screw a metal plate over it, then grind the slots from the screws, and tac weld in place, then hire a security guard to prevent anyone from tampering. :lol:

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Posted: Mon Dec 06, 2010 12:09 pm
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lol y dont you just take the amp out of the cabnet and put it in a sealed box...[/quote]


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Posted: Mon Dec 06, 2010 1:06 pm
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too easy.. :lol:

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Post subject: Reusing the Frontman Head
Posted: Wed Dec 15, 2010 8:48 am
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Once I remove the amp from the speakers on the Frontman 212, could I still use the amp as a sort of "pseudo-amp head"? The speaker wires are hard wired to the amps circuit board, so i figured I could make a little homeade amp head out of some wood and a little bit of vinyl covering 8) . I assume I could just wire these speaker wires to an output jack, but now that everyone is talking about how running amps without speakers is bad im a bit confused. Would running the Frontman 212 without a speaker cab be bad for the amp? I would most likely just use the pre-out to run into my computer interface for recording purposes, so I don't really need to hear any output from a power amp being that I can just monitor it through my computer. Is there some type of device I could buy or wire up that could take the place of the speakers and give the amp load but not necessarily make sound? :?: :?:


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Posted: Wed Dec 15, 2010 1:56 pm
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In a tube amp, the speaker load is necessary to protect the output transformer. Since the SS amp has no output transformer, there isn't the same concern for running it unloaded. A tube amp can handle a very low impedance load, and even a shorted output, and work just fine, but will not tolerate an open output (hence the shorting output jacks on tube amps). SS amps will NOT tolerate a very low impedance load or a shorted output, but will work with a very high impedance load or open output. Generally it is OK to run SS amps without a speaker. If I am looking at the right schematic, your amp has an RC network across the output (parallel to the speaker) that will be a small load on the amp anyway so the output isn't completely unloaded. The RC network is probably there to compensate for the varying impedance of the speaker at different frequencies, but it also provides a small load on the amp (not that it matters). It is possible that you could have problems with oscillation when the speaker is disconnected, but you will hear that when using the preamp out, so discontinue using without a speaker if you hear any uncontrolled oscillation.

If you want to install a speaker jack on your SS amp head build, DO NOT use a shorting jack such as those found on tube amp outputs, just use the same type as the input jack on a Strat (only 2 connections). The shorting jack could cause your amp to blow, if the speaker is unplugged and you turn the amp on (it could have short circuit protection, or not) . Also make sure to keep the output jack isolated from the chassis so that the negative of the output isn't grounded. :)

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