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Posted: Tue Dec 07, 2010 9:22 am
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bluesky636,

I have already provided links that have the info about the GT tubes, and which are which, not sure what you didn't read, but that's up to you to read it or not. The information about the GT tubes made at the JJ factory is all over the internet, if you look. You have the link for GT and amplifierblueprinting, send them an email if you care too.

If you want a different source, "The Tube Amp Book" By Aspen Pittman (founder of GT), for one lists the different GT sources for tubes, and clearly points out which are made at the JJ factory, which are US, Chinese, Svetlana, etc. I believe that the book is available on "Google Books" (pages 117-129). The statement I made "... the JJ tubes that you buy at EuroTubes are not the same tubes that GT has made in the JJ factory." is entirely true, despite 63supro burying his head in the sand and refusing to accept the facts. And even the GT tubes made at other factories will be re-based by GT, clearly an improvement, one of many, and a difference which set them apart from the rest. It is even easier to just visually examine a GT S series and compare to a regular JJ tube of the same type (ie 6L6), the difference is obvious, they aren't the same tube, yet they are made in the same factory.

63supro,

You have called me "stupid" in previous posts, now you call me a "liar", and I can take it, yet the facts remain unchanged. I guess the old saying "You can't teach an old dog new tricks", is obviously applicable to you in this case. It doesn't matter what you "saw with your own eyes" years ago, things change, and there is no confusion about which tube you get from GT (except by you), your obstinate attitude doesn't change anything in the real world. Typical argument tactic of the misinformed that have nothing to offer in the way of fact, ad hominem attacks....that's brilliant! If you have anything substantial to offer that can disprove what I said, then put up or shut up. Regurgitating your tired outdated opinion does nothing to repudiate what I've stated. Live in the past if you want, time marches on, progress is made with or without you.

You can lead a horse to knowledge, but you can't make him think. :wink:

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Posted: Tue Dec 07, 2010 11:20 am
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I didn't call you a liar or recall calling you or anyone else stupid. I said this argument is silly. I never called anyone on this forum a liar. If stating opinions or experiences that don't see eye to eye with someone can be taken as calling someone a liar, then I guess we all call each other liars at some point.

It's a dumbass tube company that you seem to defend to the death because you like them. Same thing with the HRD amps. You just believe everything you read where I believe everything I experience. I do have new equipment so the old dog new trick thing is just another silly statement. You don't know me that well to know what I do, how I play or what my background is.

The JJ statement is still ridiculous as is the you don't have to bias using the same GT grade.

I buy my power tubes in matched quads. My amp only uses two. That way if something goes wrong, I should be close with the other two. That's what many gigging musicians do.

The best thing to do is ignore my posts if they get you that upset and I'll ignore your as well.

I don't recall personally attacking you, just disagreeing with you. If it makes you feel better personally attacking me and calling names that's okay. I'll take you off my Xmas list. :D It takes more than that to bend me out of shape.

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Posted: Tue Dec 07, 2010 11:29 am
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shimmilou wrote:
bluesky636,

I have already provided links that have the info about the GT tubes, and which are which, not sure what you didn't read, but that's up to you to read it or not. The information about the GT tubes made at the JJ factory is all over the internet, if you look. You have the link for GT and amplifierblueprinting, send them an email if you care too.

If you want a different source, "The Tube Amp Book" By Aspen Pittman (founder of GT), for one lists the different GT sources for tubes, and clearly points out which are made at the JJ factory, which are US, Chinese, Svetlana, etc. I believe that the book is available on "Google Books" (pages 117-129). The statement I made "... the JJ tubes that you buy at EuroTubes are not the same tubes that GT has made in the JJ factory." is entirely true, despite 63supro burying his head in the sand and refusing to accept the facts. And even the GT tubes made at other factories will be re-based by GT, clearly an improvement, one of many, and a difference which set them apart from the rest. It is even easier to just visually examine a GT S series and compare to a regular JJ tube of the same type (ie 6L6), the difference is obvious, they aren't the same tube, yet they are made in the same factory.


Shimmilou,

Well, I just completed a very lengthy response to your post. However, it took so long to write, the site logged me out and when I logged back in my post was gone. :x

To summarize:

I appreciate your taking the time to answer my questions.

I did review all of the links you posted.

The GT site makes no mention of where their tubes are sourced from.

The Amp Blueprinting site clearly shows a bias for GT. However, much of the info on the site is years old.

I believe that when one claims a statement to be true it is up to that person to provide the proof, not to tell the reader to search for it themselves.

I am bowing out of this thread now. Again, I do appreciate the info and insight you bring to this forum. I just don't agree with you this time. Lets just keep it at that. Have fun and enjoy the guitar.

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Posted: Tue Dec 07, 2010 11:42 am
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Well said Bill, I do think its time to move on.

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Posted: Tue Dec 07, 2010 12:05 pm
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Like I said, I can take it, not really upsetting so much as drudgery having to try to respond to the circular logic and your dodging answers. Yes, you called me stupid about my using the I, II and III monikers for the HRD amps (note that just for you I ceased doing so). Your words were "it is stupid and annoying to use I and II, as Fender doesn't use those names". Further you just got through saying that my statement about the GT tubes made in the JJ factory being different than other JJ tubes was "ridiculous" and that you were sure that it isn't true. That is the same as calling me a liar no matter how you want to spin it.

The experience that you have with the GTs seems to be limited to the stock tubes that come in the amp, obviously you have never used the newer versions of GTs. And it seems that you didn't even bother to try to verify what I said, you just dismissed it as if I were some child rambling about something that I was ignorant about. Retroverbial at least admitted to his limited experience with the GTs, being the stock tubes only. All of the amp manufacturers that use GTs use the lower grade tubes, not the best GTs. How many different types of tubes could you have possibly tried in your HRDlx in the short time that you had it? By your own account, the amp spent more time with the "tech" than with you performing.

I will always agree that your choice is best for you, and I do value your opinions about sound/amps/tubes, you have far to much knowledge/experience to ignore. But there are opinions like sound, and there are facts like where GT tubes are made. You can't have an opinion about whether or not 2 + 2 = 4. The GT tubes S series are in fact made at the JJ factory, you could verify this quite easily with an email to Myles at amplifierblueprinting, Bob at EuroTubes, or the JJ factory itself. JJ has always taken awhile to respond to me, maybe they have to translate first.

If you care to look at the GT site, under "Artist" they have a pretty impressive list of musicians that use GTs. Maybe GT pays them to fool us about the GT quality, could be I guess.

And talk about a ridiculous statement, "JJ/Tesla Tubes". ??? There is no such animal. Here's another ridiculous statement. "The JJ statement is still ridiculous as is the you don't have to bias using the same GT grade. I buy my power tubes in matched quads. My amp only uses two. That way if something goes wrong, I should be close with the other two. That's what many gigging musicians do." So, somehow you can change tubes with another matched set, and "be close" but when someone else makes the claim it's "ridiculous"? WTF dude?

Edit:
Just saw your post bluesky636, and that's a good idea to move on. Just one last point. You said "The GT site makes no mention of where their tubes are sourced from." OK, from the GT site: GT-6L6-R (B) Duet Russian made, same as the 5881 you are using now,... Or this one: GT-6L6-S Duet Slovakian made with high power and very agressive dynamic tone... or another: GT-KT66-C Duet Chinese made copy of the classic KT66. There are only about 5 or 6 manufacturers, you do know which is in Slovakia don't you?

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Posted: Tue Dec 07, 2010 12:18 pm
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I still didn't personally call YOU stupid. I said the designation was stupid and annoying. I didn't call you a liar. Disagreeing with someone or calling a statement ridiculous is not the "same thing" as calling you I liar. Man, this is like having a conversation with my EX 20 years ago. I'm outta here.

shimmilou, In the future do me a huge favor, PLEASE IGNORE MY POSTS!!!!!

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Posted: Tue Dec 07, 2010 6:57 pm
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shimmilou wrote:
Edit: Just saw your post bluesky636, and that's a good idea to move on. Just one last point. You said "The GT site makes no mention of where their tubes are sourced from." OK, from the GT site: GT-6L6-R (B) Duet Russian made, same as the 5881 you are using now,... Or this one: GT-6L6-S Duet Slovakian made with high power and very agressive dynamic tone... or another: GT-KT66-C Duet Chinese made copy of the classic KT66. There are only about 5 or 6 manufacturers, you do know which is in Slovakia don't you?


I have moved on. :wink:

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Posted: Tue Dec 07, 2010 10:52 pm
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63supro wrote:
I still didn't personally call YOU stupid. I said the designation was stupid and annoying. I didn't call you a liar. Disagreeing with someone or calling a statement ridiculous is not the "same thing" as calling you I liar. Man, this is like having a conversation with my EX 20 years ago. I'm outta here.

shimmilou, In the future do me a huge favor, PLEASE IGNORE MY POSTS!!!!!




:roll:


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Posted: Wed Dec 08, 2010 5:52 am
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JJ/Tesla

http://store.triodestore.com/12dw77247ecc832jj.html

TESLA decided to sell off their line of Audio tubes to JJ around 1997, and many still refer to it as JJ/Tesla today. Here's a link Google it if you want to. :roll: Just about all tube retailers refer to them that way. I didn't make up the name, the retailers did. JJ's are made on the old Tesla equipment.

Elvis has just left the building.

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Posted: Wed Dec 08, 2010 7:02 am
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The term JJ/Tesla is stupid and annoying. :lol: JJ doesn't use the name, nowhere on their site do they say JJ/Tesla. The two companies are completely different, they never produced anything together. Same equipment, different companies, different parts, different times.

http://www.jj-electronic.com/

"Why JJ tubes are not Tesla tubes

There is a common misunderstanding in the internet called TESLA-JJ tubes. I don't know which duck invented this word, but such tubes don't exist. There are TESLA tubes, and there are JJ tubes, both made in different factories, by different people, with different technologies. Only the machines are the same, and in the Tesla days they were new, and now they are old. The used materials definitely are not the same. TESLA has used the cathodes from the former TESLA Rosnov factory, but this factory is closed now. Also wires, and nickel technology came from Tesla plants that are all closed now. Cathodes are elementary for tube performance.

May be you know that Yugoslavian "EI" ECC-series tubes are made on old Philips machines. This is EXACTLY the same situation, but I hear nobody talk about EI-Philips tubes. They are regarded something different, which is correct.
"

http://www.jacmusic.com/tesla/tesla-jj.html

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Posted: Wed Dec 08, 2010 7:43 am
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I didn't invent the term and I know they were never the same. Like I said Tesla sold it's audio tube operation and machinery to Jan Jorgo. It's not just the same equipment, it is THE Tesla equipment. Yes it's a misnomer and yes I know it so go complain to the tube retailers and the marketing community who added Tesla to the name and say formerly Tesla which is true in a pretty distant way. It should say manufactured on equipment that used to manufacture Tesla tubes.
Still JJ's are great current production tubes as are Electro Harmonix. I usually never call them JJ/Tesla because I just don't care and get tired of nit picking.

We just need to disagree on the GT situation. I hate them you adore them, you can use them, I won't and will never recommend them. You don't know my whole experience with them and it goes a little beyond the crap GT's that were in my HRDlx. Don't make assumptions about my experience with anything regarding equipment or music, it goes way beyond what I talk about on the forum.

I had them in my Bandmaster too in the very early 80's. They rattled like can of screws unless I took the head off the cabinet. One shorted and caused some problems that I got them to accept liability for the repairs. It's a long story that I won't go into. Musicians survived for many years without Groove Tubes. Seems like the musicians who like them have endorsement deals and more than likely get the for free. I'll take anything for free.

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Posted: Wed Dec 08, 2010 8:21 am
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I thought everyone was going to move on. I guess some people like to debate ad-nauseum. :roll:

Anyway....have fun!


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Posted: Wed Dec 08, 2010 8:23 am
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bclarke675 wrote:
I thought everyone was going to move on. I guess some people like to debate ad-nauseum. :roll:

Anyway....have fun!


Looks like we both like to get the last word.
I'm done
:oops:

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