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Posted: Fri Dec 03, 2010 8:37 pm
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shimmilou wrote:
bluesky636 wrote:
...JJs from Eurotubes sound way better than the stock GTs that came in my BDRI. JJs cost less than GTs too. :wink:


That's cool. I was just wondering if you had tried to raise the bias on the GTs before switching to the JJs, and raising the bias on the JJs? It just seems to me that most people have changed the tubes and the bias, yet attribute the better tone to the tubes alone. In the case of the BDRI, the stock tubes were the 5881 I believe, which is a lower wattage tube than the JJ, so the JJ would need to be biased even higher than the stock tubes anyway.

And, keep in mind that the S series Groove Tubes are made in the same JJ factory, on equipment specifically for the Groove Tubes. If you use the S series, you would be getting JJ tubes, but paying for special testing of those tubes (whether or not it's worth it to you). The stock tubes in many new amps are Groove Tubes R series, maybe a lower wattage tube, but could certainly benefit from a bias adjustment in the same way that new JJs do. I have found the stock Sovteks to be very robust, and can handle a higher bias, but I guess that tone is subjective still. Maybe all of the loud concerts over the years has ruined my hearing? :lol: :)


The GT 6L6R's that came in my BDRI were just relabled Sovtek 5881s and were rated at 25 watts max dissipation. Factory, they were biased at 65 mV (at the Fender test point). They sounded very sterile. At 75 mV (at the Fender test point) they sounded very harsh, so I compromised at 70 mV. They sounded "ok".

The JJ 6L6GCs are biased at 85 mV (at the Fender test point) and sound absolutely sweet with a great blues tone. I haven't looked back. :D

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Posted: Fri Dec 03, 2010 9:36 pm
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Sounds like you did give it a try, that's fair. :) I bet that the S series would be a better comparison though. :idea: I have wanted to try a set of 6V6 in my HRDlx, I might try the GT S and compare them to the JJs. Have you tried the 6V6 in place of the 6L6 in an amp? I know they are less power, but I like the 6V6 driven sound better vs the 6L6. I like the 6L6 clean sound.

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Posted: Sat Dec 04, 2010 1:26 am
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shimmilou wrote:
Sounds like you did give it a try, that's fair. :) I bet that the S series would be a better comparison though. :idea: I have wanted to try a set of 6V6 in my HRDlx, I might try the GT S and compare them to the JJs. Have you tried the 6V6 in place of the 6L6 in an amp? I know they are less power, but I like the 6V6 driven sound better vs the 6L6. I like the 6L6 clean sound.


No, I prefer a smooth, bluesy clean sound from the amp. The JJ 6L6GCs give me exactly what I want. I use a modded Boss OD-3 with my Strat, and a modded Boss BD-2 with my humbucker equipped guitar for dirt. They give me very different sounds.

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Posted: Sat Dec 04, 2010 2:48 pm
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bluesky636 wrote:
shimmilou wrote:
pe001ne wrote:
..., what tubes do you recommend?


Groove Tubes are great too, maybe a little pricey, you get what you pay for. They are thoroughly tested and guaranteed. Do you like the sound that you have with the existing tubes? :wink: Many times people will recommend other tubes, but have never used the GTs with the bias set correctly to begin with, so they have no fair comparison. If you are unable to check or set the bias, replacing with the exact same tubes is really the best option. Fender recommends replacing with the same tubes so the bias will likely be the same. But, like the others have said, it is always best to check the bias to be sure. :)


JJs from Eurotubes sound way better than the stock GTs that came in my BDRI. JJs cost less than GTs too. :wink:


+1 JJ's are great and really affordable EH and Tung Sol too.

Sorry shimmilou, but before I plunked down the coin for over hyped Groove Tubes I'd invest in some NOS RCA, JAN Phillips or GE. I did use GT's on many occasions through the years in many different amps and they never held up or sounded that great. I seriously tried to like them.

GT is a tube sorting house and are owned by Fender. That's the only reason they are in their amps. They don't make their own tubes. And yes, my bias was set correctly for me and if you read the forums most of the problems are stock tube related which would be Groove Tubes. Mine in my HRDlx only lasted a couple of months, some people have them for a couple of years. If they were so reliable, there wouldn't be so many tube related problems, especially when most of Fenders amps with the exception of the BJr are biased pretty cold. And no the bias will not always or likely be the same.

Unless you try different tube manufacturers, you'll never know what works better for you. You could be seriously be cheating yourself if you're new to tube amps.

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Posted: Mon Dec 06, 2010 4:23 am
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i prefere GT tubes, i have a fender blues deluxe reissue so it is possible to adjust the bias and with some tweaking i got it to sound awsome, i play a lot of blues, hendrix and stevie ray stuff and the JJ's seemed a bit harsh previously but i didnt play with the bias much wif them...

im sticking with GT's...


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Posted: Mon Dec 06, 2010 6:15 am
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I never thought I would like new production tubes since I'm a NOS tube freak,but I have to admit the SED Winged C 6L6GCs sound great,they were the original Svetlana brand.


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Posted: Mon Dec 06, 2010 8:06 am
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Amazing how so many amp manufacturers these days use Groove Tubes as stock in their amps. Egnater, Orange and Fender just to name a few. The hype must be working on the manufacturers too, or else they just don't care about their customers and purposefully use inferior tubes. :roll: GT does manufacture some of their own tubes, at the JJ factory. GT has also acquired the old GE equipment and are reproducing the original GE tubes (yes, exactly like the originals) with many of the original manufacturers of the parts used for the tubes, with the original materials. Fender even used GTs before they owned the company. Egnater must be getting some payola, or are otherwise tricked into using these supposed inferior tubes. What a shame. :( And now, the JJ factory is making some of the GTs. JJ must somehow cripple the GTs so that they won't be as good as their other JJ tubes. :lol: I wonder why manufacturers would use more expensive GT tubes in their amps when something like a JJ is so much cheaper? :?: Maybe when Fender relabels a Russian tube, it somehow damages it, whereas other resellers can relabel the exact same tubes with no ill effects. That must be the problem, the Fender labeler is ruining the tubes, aha! :!: :lol:

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Posted: Mon Dec 06, 2010 8:07 am
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da rok wrote:
i prefere GT tubes, i have a fender blues deluxe reissue so it is possible to adjust the bias and with some tweaking i got it to sound awsome, i play a lot of blues, hendrix and stevie ray stuff and the JJ's seemed a bit harsh previously but i didnt play with the bias much wif them...

im sticking with GT's...


JJ 6L6GCs can and should be biased hotter than stock GTs. GT 6L6s (whatever GT calls them these days) typically cannot be biased as hot as JJs and never really get into a sweet zone. At least mine didn't. You need to experiment with the bias when you change power tubes and not just stick a tube in and expect it sound its best.

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Last edited by bluesky636 on Mon Dec 06, 2010 8:20 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Posted: Mon Dec 06, 2010 8:12 am
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63supro wrote:
Sorry shimmilou, but before I plunked down the coin for over hyped Groove Tubes I'd invest in some NOS RCA, JAN Phillips or GE.


+1!

These sound fabulous in my '68 Showman......

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Posted: Mon Dec 06, 2010 8:17 am
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bluesky636, there are different GT 6L6 tubes (GT and other brands), only the 5881s are 25 watt, the rest are 30 watt and more. The JJs being a 30 watt tube, would naturally be biased hotter than a 25 watt 5881. But any of the GT 30 watt tubes can be biased just as hot as a JJ. :idea:

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Posted: Mon Dec 06, 2010 8:19 am
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shimmilou wrote:
Amazing how so many amp manufacturers these days use Groove Tubes as stock in their amps. Egnater, Orange and Fender just to name a few. The hype must be working on the manufacturers too, or else they just don't care about their customers and purposefully use inferior tubes. :roll: GT does manufacture some of their own tubes, at the JJ factory. GT has also acquired the old GE equipment and are reproducing the original GE tubes (yes, exactly like the originals) with many of the original manufacturers of the parts used for the tubes, with the original materials. Fender even used GTs before they owned the company. Egnater must be getting some payola, or are otherwise tricked into using these supposed inferior tubes. What a shame. :( And now, the JJ factory is making some of the GTs. JJ must somehow cripple the GTs so that they won't be as good as their other JJ tubes. :lol: I wonder why manufacturers would use more expensive GT tubes in their amps when something like a JJ is so much cheaper? :?: Maybe when Fender relabels a Russian tube, it somehow damages it, whereas other resellers can relabel the exact same tubes with no ill effects. That must be the problem, the Fender labeler is ruining the tubes, aha! :!: :lol:


The GT 6L6-Rs (Blue Label) that came in my BDRI (purchased new this year) are relabled SOVTEK 5881s. These tubes are only rated at 25 watts max plate dissipation. I don't know the reasons why, nor does it really matter. I did everything I could to get a decent sound out of them with little success. I installed a full set of JJs in my amp and there was a noticable difference in sound quality. In my particular case it is my opinion that the GTs are inferior to the JJs. YMMV

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Posted: Mon Dec 06, 2010 8:28 am
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shimmilou wrote:
bluesky636, there are different GT 6L6 tubes (GT and other brands), only the 5881s are 25 watt, the rest are 30 watt and more. The JJs being a 30 watt tube, would naturally be biased hotter than a 25 watt 5881. But any of the GT 30 watt tubes can be biased just as hot as a JJ. :idea:


See my other post.

I understand what you are saying. The main problem I have with GTs is not knowing exactly what they are. How my different types of 6L6 tubes are on the market today? Not manufacturers but "6L6xx"? The GTs that came in my BDRI are labeled 6L6R. What is that exactly? If I hadn't read a post on the GT relabling, I never would have thought to turn the tube around to read the SOVTEK 5881 labling on the other side. I will stick with a true 6L6GC. For the money, the JJs are a great sounding tube and definitely superior to what came stock in my BDRI. I'll stick with them. :D

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Posted: Mon Dec 06, 2010 8:29 am
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Yes, I agree that replacing a 25 watt tube with a 30 watt tube would sound better. Don't agree that JJs or any other brand are better quality than the GTs. Try replacing the 30 watt JJs with a 30 watt GT S series, that would be a much more fair comparison. BTW, both are made at the same factory, JJ. :)

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Posted: Mon Dec 06, 2010 8:37 am
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TAD (Tube Amp Docter) tubes.
http://www.tubeampdoctor.com/index.php?language=en


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Posted: Mon Dec 06, 2010 9:14 am
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shimmilou wrote:
Yes, I agree that replacing a 25 watt tube with a 30 watt tube would sound better. Don't agree that JJs or any other brand are better quality than the GTs. Try replacing the 30 watt JJs with a 30 watt GT S series, that would be a much more fair comparison. BTW, both are made at the same factory, JJ. :)


Again, there is my problem with GTs: What is a "6L6S"?

Looking at prices only at Sweetwater for GT 6L6 tubes:

GT 6L6R duet - $46
GT 6L6CHP quartet - $91
GT 6L6R quartet - $91
GT 6L6GE quartet - $107
GT 6L6S quartet - $138

Who makes these? What are their specs?

Eurotubes:

JJ 6L6GC duet - $34
JJ 6L6GC quartet - $68

The GT 6L6Rs that came in my BDRI cost $46 from Sweetwater. They were terrible. The 6L6GCs from Eurotubes are $13 less and sound fantastic. I'm guessing a pair of GT 6L6S tubes would be about $70 (Sweetwater doesn't have a listing for a pair of them). Are they truly worth twice what the JJs cost? If the GT 6L6S is made in the same factory with the JJ 6L6C, why does GT charge twice as much for them? What is so special about the GT version?

If you are happy with the sound of GTs, that is great. My own comparison between GTs and JJs (even though they may not be the exact same tube) really makes me question the cost/benefit ratio of the GTs.

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