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Posted: Sun Nov 21, 2010 8:30 am
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shimmilou wrote:
Many of the post that you read "over and over" are from a very few, who post the same thing over and over. Then, people who have never even owned an amp will repeat those stories til it seems like more than it actually is. The problems of cheaper mass production apply to all modern amps in the same class as the HRds, and even in amps that are supposed to be "better". Do a search for similar problems with the DRRI and the Pro Tube Twins on this forum. I stand by what I said, there are a lot of "Techs" that just are not very good if they do a poor job of troubleshooting, and solder joints are a no-brainer....if they can't handle soldering......? And the OP didn't say whether or not the repair shop was authorized or not, just that they sold him a whole set of tubes. Do you think that they were good techs? :idea: :)


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Posted: Sun Nov 21, 2010 8:45 am
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Retroverbial wrote:
Unbeknownst to me at the time though were the tube sockets pop-riveted directly to the PCB -- a disaster just waiting to happen.


FYI: The 6L6 tube sockets in the BDRI are mounted to the chassis. Only the preamp tube sockets are mounted to the PCB. I don't see that as a problem at all. There are many other, more expensive amps out there with PCB mounted tube sockets.

Retroverbial wrote:
Likewise the "all-tube" hype in the catalog description for the HR's is a misnomer as well -- the reverb isn't tube-driven at all.


So? Other than "hype", why do you see this as a probhlem? The reverb on the BDRI (not tube driven) sounds great.

When the Blues Deluxe was first issued in the mid-90s, it had all of the problems associated with the first-gen HRDs. The HRDs are based on the original Blues Deluxe and carried the exisiting problems with it. No argument there. When the BDRI was brought out, Fender fixed many if not all of the known problems. I have read very few complaints about BDRIs. Now that Fender has introduced the HR III models, I believe that the fixes that were applied to the BDRI were also applied to the HR III. I won't swear to that as have not seen one inside and have not read any reviews of the new HR series.

The HR series is built to a certain price point. There are many amps available from other companies that are built to the same price point. Are they all perfectly trouble free? I doubt it.

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Posted: Sun Nov 21, 2010 9:24 am
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bluesky636 wrote:
The HR series is built to a certain price point. There are many amps available from other companies that are built to the same price point. Are they all perfectly trouble free? I doubt it.


Indeed.

Which is why I won't be buying any of those amps either.

Arjay

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Posted: Sun Nov 21, 2010 2:48 pm
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Retroverbial wrote:
bluesky636 wrote:
The HR series is built to a certain price point. There are many amps available from other companies that are built to the same price point. Are they all perfectly trouble free? I doubt it.


Indeed.

Which is why I won't be buying any of those amps either.

Arjay


Not everyone has the funds or the need to buy a more expensive amp. The guitar and amp business is just like the auto industry: We have Honda Civics, BMWs, and Rolls Royces. One buys what one wants and can afford. But even BMWs and Rolls Royces break down. :wink:

I don't regret buying a BDRI. It gives me the sound I want, I could afford it, and I don't gig.

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Posted: Sun Nov 21, 2010 5:13 pm
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shimmilou wrote:
peterp wrote:
...Seems they cook and de-solder themselves off after a while....The hotrods have a bad rep because they are budget amps made as inexpensively as possible to begin with....



Many of the post that you read "over and over" are from a very few, who post the same thing over and over. Then, people who have never even owned an amp will repeat those stories til it seems like more than it actually is. The problems of cheaper mass production apply to all modern amps in the same class as the HRds, and even in amps that are supposed to be "better". Do a search for similar problems with the DRRI and the Pro Tube Twins on this forum. I stand by what I said, there are a lot of "Techs" that just are not very good if they do a poor job of troubleshooting, and solder joints are a no-brainer....if they can't handle soldering......? And the OP didn't say whether or not the repair shop was authorized or not, just that they sold him a whole set of tubes. Do you think that they were good techs? :idea: :)


That's not entirely true. My posts of the same thing about HRD amps over and over are usually answering problems from the MANY who have problems with the HRD series. It's because the HRD series amps HAVE the same problems over and over again and can be remedied by the SAME answer. :roll:
There are amps in the same "class" as the HRD series that are designed and built better and don't have nearly the problems of the HRD amps. The Peavey Classic 30 and Delta Blues series is a fine example as are the Egnater, Epi and VHT amps. In my circle of professional musician's, many have tried and sold their HRD DeVille and Deluxes because they just can't hold up to the rigors of constant gigging. It's a fact and the amp deserves the rep it has. Mine was THE most unreliable amp I ever owned in my 44 years as a musician.

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Posted: Sun Nov 21, 2010 5:41 pm
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63supro wrote:
In my circle of professional musician's, many have tried and sold their HRD DeVille and Deluxes because they just can't hold up to the rigors of constant gigging. It's a fact and the amp deserves the rep it has. Mine was THE most unreliable amp I ever owned in my 44 years as a musician.


Not trying to pick a fight, but you make this claim all the time, yet I have never seen any hard data to back up your claim. Yes, it may have been the most unreliable amp that you ever owned, I don't doubt that. But of all the Hot Rod series amps that have been sold, where is the data that shows that this series of amps is any more unreliable than any other amp in this price range?

On the other hand, you always tout the virtues of the DRRI. On the "Amps and Cabs" forum on TGP, a simple search of "DRRI Problems" results in at least 9 threads pertaining to problems with the DRRI on the FIRST page. Heck, pick any amp you want to and do a search and I bet that you will find complaints about problems that that particular amp has. More people post complaints about things than they do praise. It does not matter whether it is a guitar amp, a dishwasher, or a car.

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Posted: Sun Nov 21, 2010 6:15 pm
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bluesky636 wrote:
More people post complaints about things than they do praise. It does not matter whether it is a guitar amp, a dishwasher, or a car.


No dispute there, Bill.

But the fact is, mine was a hangar queen. And I'm glad to be rid of it.

And I pat myself on the back every time I successfully discourage some neophyte from committing the same gaff I did.

Arjay

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Posted: Sun Nov 21, 2010 6:30 pm
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Retroverbial wrote:
bluesky636 wrote:
More people post complaints about things than they do praise. It does not matter whether it is a guitar amp, a dishwasher, or a car.


No dispute there, Bill.

But the fact is, mine was a hangar queen. And I'm glad to be rid of it.

And I pat myself on the back every time I successfully discourage some neophyte from committing the same gaff I did.

Arjay


Ok. Two people who hated their Hot Rod Deluxe. Where are all the others who say that the HR series is a horrible amp compared to others in its price class? I am an engineer by profession. I deal in hard data. Where is the hard data against this amp?

From an old statistics book: "One is an anomaly. Two is a coincedence. Three is a trend. Four is fact." :lol:

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Posted: Sun Nov 21, 2010 9:18 pm
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Count me as 3 and 3.25 :)
But delete classification "price class" for me :) I agree you get what you pay for!

Had 2 of them that went sour within a week of each other.
We had one for almost a year, bought the second and both went and failed.
Guess one caught the solder crack virus from the other.

One has been sold, we are still suffering along with the other one.

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Posted: Sun Nov 21, 2010 10:57 pm
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peterp wrote:
Guess one caught the solder crack virus from the other.


LOLOL

Mebbe you should've quarantined them.

:mrgreen:

Arjay

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Posted: Mon Nov 22, 2010 2:27 am
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" Heck, pick any amp you want to and do a search and I bet that you will find complaints about problems that that particular amp has. More people post complaints about things than they do praise. It does not matter whether it is a guitar amp, a dishwasher, or a car."

__Bluesky636

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Posted: Mon Nov 22, 2010 9:51 am
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Bluesky +2

Has anyone done a real study on this? I doubt it.


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Posted: Mon Nov 22, 2010 10:20 am
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FXA wrote:
Has anyone done a real study on this? I doubt it.


Only one "study" that I know of.

In that case, it was conducted by a technician with thirty years of experience repairing high-powered military radar and radio systems, plus a number of years developing prototype GPS equipment for use in aircraft and vehicles.

His conclusion?

The HR and BD series of amps violated most of Leo Fender's original philosophical conventions in that they did not utilize durable construction techniques, were designed around marginal components, and were not easily repaired.

That "technician" was me.

Arjay

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Posted: Mon Nov 22, 2010 10:47 am
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+ 1 Retroverbial


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Posted: Mon Nov 22, 2010 11:57 am
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That's pretty good Retroverbial. By that criteria, you left out dozens of other series of Fender amps that also violate those same conventions. :wink:

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