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Post subject: Hot rod deluxe preamp tube not heating up
Posted: Fri Nov 19, 2010 11:53 am
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My hot rod deluxe has a preamp tube that wont warm up, I recently took the amp to my local repair shop and they concluded that I needed new tubes, me not knowing much assumed they knew best. Well, after the 130 dollar retubing one of my pre-amp tubes still isnt warming up (it's the right tube if you're looking at the amp from the back) I still get sound from the amp and it doesnt sound terrible when playing but I'm worried that i may blow the amp or something any suggestions or ideas as to what it could be?


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Posted: Fri Nov 19, 2010 12:31 pm
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$130.00???? Yow! When I had mine I got a whole set of JJ's for around $65. Is the tube stone cold to the touch? Bad solder joints on the tube socket could possibly be the culprit.

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Posted: Fri Nov 19, 2010 1:23 pm
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63supro wrote:
$130.00???? Yow! When I had mine I got a whole set of JJ's for around $65. Is the tube stone cold to the touch? Bad solder joints on the tube socket could possibly be the culprit.


+1
Next time you could just get one new preamp tube instead of a whole new set of tubes. Or for free, swap your existing preamp tubes around to see if it's a bad tube.

Oh well, it seems you are still having the problem so we can rule out it being a bad tube.

Like Supro said, maybe a cold solder joint. $130 could have paid for a tech to find and fix the problem and then some.

Odd thing though is that you still hear sound. The HRDlx needs all of it's preamp tubes to be working (especially V1, "the right tube if you're looking at the amp from the back"). Some brand tubes don't "light up" as much as others. What brand of tube is it?

Did you buy this new or used? If new, your warranty should cover this. Good luck!

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Posted: Fri Nov 19, 2010 4:04 pm
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Let me know if the filament is not red ? If yes, change with another same valve (put a mark on it and let me know). usually, valves are under warranty for 3 months, you can manage that with your repairchop. 8)

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Posted: Fri Nov 19, 2010 5:30 pm
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Hi icke2433,

What kind of preamp tube is "not warming up"? Do you mean "not lighting up"? A 12AT7 or 12AY7 will not light up as bright as a 12AX7, that's normal. If you have normal sound out of the amp, then the tubes are working. Good suggestion by Tissan to move the tube to another spot (V1 or V2 or V3). If it is in V1, move to V2 and put the V2 tube in V1, if the suspect tube still doesn't "warm up", it is the tube (which might be normal, see above). If you move the tube to another position and then it "warms up", the problem would be in the tube socket/solder joints for that position where the tube was originally. :idea:

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Posted: Sat Nov 20, 2010 5:33 am
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Return the amp to this (not real) tech . For $130 your amp should be fixed alright. He should finish his bad job

First follow what Tissan sais about swap tubes


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Posted: Sat Nov 20, 2010 7:27 am
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Unless you have been altering tubes, a HRD has three 12AX7 in the v1,v2,v3 positions. About 10$ each for groovetubes and 20$ each for the 6l6s.
Very easy to change yourself, only a couple minutes work even if you need to do a bias ater changing power tubes.

Sounds like they charged auto shop rates, 2 * the parts cost to pop them out and swap them, and they did not even check it if was working. Most odd issue should have been noticed if they did a proper re-bias after changing the power tubes :)

Heater element solder joint crack on the phase inverter (v3)., was first thing that went wrong with both our HRD type amps. Fixed under the Fender 5 year waranty, but took a couple of weeks for the shop to send them away to an authorized service center to be done

Found the solution, sold one of the amps almost immediately, sitll wating for someone to take the second one away. It has failed same way (on different sockets) a couple of times since. All hail thrid world assembly line cost cutting product quality.

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Posted: Sat Nov 20, 2010 7:56 am
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peterp wrote:
All hail thrid world assembly line cost cutting product quality.


+1

Arjay

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Posted: Sat Nov 20, 2010 3:48 pm
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peterp wrote:
Unless you have been altering tubes, a HRD has three 12AX7 in the v1,v2,v3 positions. About 10$ each for groovetubes and 20$ each for the 6l6s.
Very easy to change yourself, only a couple minutes work even if you need to do a bias ater changing power tubes.

Sounds like they charged auto shop rates, 2 * the parts cost to pop them out and swap them, and they did not even check it if was working. Most odd issue should have been noticed if they did a proper re-bias after changing the power tubes :)

Heater element solder joint crack on the phase inverter (v3)., was first thing that went wrong with both our HRD type amps. Fixed under the Fender 5 year waranty, but took a couple of weeks for the shop to send them away to an authorized service center to be done

Found the solution, sold one of the amps almost immediately, sitll wating for someone to take the second one away. It has failed same way (on different sockets) a couple of times since. All hail thrid world assembly line cost cutting product quality.


That's how I repaired mine. Sold it.

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Posted: Sat Nov 20, 2010 5:48 pm
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peterp wrote:
...our HRD type amps....has failed same way (on different sockets) a couple of times since. ..


Sounds like the typical story, poor job by the "tech". A competent tech would have done a better job. If you find poor solder joints in one part/socket of the amp, all other joints should be checked too. No excuse for having the same problem over and over, that is simply the techs fault, not the amps fault. This seems like a big part of the reason that the HRd gets a bad rap, poor job of repair to begin with. :(

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Posted: Sat Nov 20, 2010 9:52 pm
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Under warranty they get sent back to a Fender authorized repair center.
If the Fender authorized techs are bad I guess it is done to match the quality of the "lowest cost solution country" made equipment.
However I don't think there is any issue with the techs.

shimmilou wrote:
Sounds like the typical story, poor job by the "tech". A competent tech would have done a better job.


Check back through the forum, this same issue comes up over and over for the HRD amps. As does a little cooked resistor issue.
The hotrod PCB seems inadequate to the task and the tube sockets should never have been surface mounted upside down to it in that small enclosed space. Almost seems they cook and de-solder themselves off after a while.

My old twin saw a hard life and went decades without failure, but it was made properly. Wish I never sold it but it got too heavy for my old back. :(

The hotrods have a bad rep because they are budget amps made as inexpensively as possible to begin with. People don't realize that and get a surprise when they try to actually put them to work.

It's the old making a silk purse from a sows ear story.

shimmilou wrote:
This seems like a big part of the reason that the HRd gets a bad rap, poor job of repair to begin with. :(

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Posted: Sat Nov 20, 2010 10:39 pm
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peterp wrote:
...Seems they cook and de-solder themselves off after a while....The hotrods have a bad rep because they are budget amps made as inexpensively as possible to begin with....


No way that the temp gets hot enough to "de-solder" any solder joints, especially the preamp tubes, doesn't happen. What does happen though is that the heating and cooling of the parts around the tubes causes the already poor joints to start failing, this happens on many, many types of amps, and is in no way exclusive to the HRds, there are just way more HRds than any other amp, so you might hear about them more. Solder joint problems are the majority of the issues with the HRDlx. A big part of the problem with the solder joints is wave soldering. I have a lot of experience with wave soldering machines used in modern production, and they often produce parts with cold joints that break down over time. The main problem with the wave soldering is when run too fast, the parts don't get hot enough to produce a good joint, and I can assure you that production speed is top priority, often over quality for many modern amps.

Many of the post that you read "over and over" are from a very few, who post the same thing over and over. Then, people who have never even owned an amp will repeat those stories til it seems like more than it actually is. The problems of cheaper mass production apply to all modern amps in the same class as the HRds, and even in amps that are supposed to be "better". Do a search for similar problems with the DRRI and the Pro Tube Twins on this forum. I stand by what I said, there are a lot of "Techs" that just are not very good if they do a poor job of troubleshooting, and solder joints are a no-brainer....if they can't handle soldering......? And the OP didn't say whether or not the repair shop was authorized or not, just that they sold him a whole set of tubes. Do you think that they were good techs? :idea: :)

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Posted: Sat Nov 20, 2010 10:54 pm
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peterp wrote:
The hotrods have a bad rep because they are budget amps made as inexpensively as possible to begin with. People don't realize that and get a surprise when they try to actually put them to work.


+1

I failed to do my due diligence prior to purchasing mine -- my bad.

I was aware of the printed circuit boards in the re-issues and in fact never had a problem with my TRRI or DRRI. Evidently they're better built boards, with higher-grade components. Unbeknownst to me at the time though were the tube sockets pop-riveted directly to the PCB -- a disaster just waiting to happen. I'd seen the Bassman re-issue chassis and had just assumed that the HR's were built to a similar standard. Likewise the "all-tube" hype in the catalog description for the HR's is a misnomer as well -- the reverb isn't tube-driven at all.

I don't have the patience for any sturm und drang when it comes to my gear......I'll stick with vintage and the re-issues.

Arjay

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Posted: Sun Nov 21, 2010 3:32 am
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Sounds like the typical story, poor job by the "tech". A competent tech would have done a better job. If you find poor solder joints in one part/socket of the amp, all other joints should be checked too. No excuse for having the same problem over and over, that is simply the techs fault, not the amps fault. This seems like a big part of the reason that the HRd gets a bad rap, poor job of repair to begin with

____shimmiliou


+1


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Posted: Sun Nov 21, 2010 8:11 am
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May be we should let Icke answer 8)

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