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Post subject: Blues Junior or 57 delux reissue
Posted: Tue Nov 16, 2010 2:42 am
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Hi Guys,
I have a Blues Junior for home use and was looking to buy a smaller valve amp so that I can crank it more. I was thinking of the 57 deluxe as it is only 11 watts, then I spoke to someone that has had both and he says the 57 deluxe was louder than a Pro Junior or blues junior so he sold it . What do you think can this be right . I do not want to buy an expensive amp that is to loud.I cant find one near to me to try.

Thanks Mike F


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Posted: Tue Nov 16, 2010 10:21 am
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Given speakers of similar efficency, the difference in loudness between a 15 watt amp and an 11 watt amp is negligible. If the 57 Deluxe has a more efficient speaker than the Blues Jr. it certainly could sound louder than the BJr.

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Posted: Tue Nov 16, 2010 11:53 am
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There is also a huge difference in tone and build quality between the two. The 57 Deluxe wins in both tone and build quality. And as bluesky636 said there is little difference between a 15 and 11 watt amp volume wise.

I would look foe either a clean 6 watt Silverface Champ or build one of the Tweed Champ kits. IMO Either will sound way better than either the Pro Jr or Blues Jr. and cost considerably less than a 57 Deluxe Reissue. I'd steed clear of a Champion 600. They sound really boxy and small to me anyway. As always, YMMV.

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Posted: Tue Nov 16, 2010 1:59 pm
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Hi guys
thanks for your responses, I understand about the quality of tone and build quality , but its no good having the best tone if it is to loud to use. I love the tone of the 57 deluxe that I have heard online but it is no good if it is to loud.I will look into the suggested silverface champ , but lliving in the UK I dont think I will find one.

Many thanks


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Posted: Tue Nov 16, 2010 2:11 pm
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islander99 wrote:
Hi guys
thanks for your responses, I understand about the quality of tone and build quality , but its no good having the best tone if it is to loud to use. I love the tone of the 57 deluxe that I have heard online but it is no good if it is to loud.I will look into the suggested silverface champ , but lliving in the UK I dont think I will find one.

Many thanks


You could always build one of these

http://www.tubedepot.com/kit-tweedchamp.html

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Posted: Tue Nov 16, 2010 2:24 pm
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Hi islander99,

Maybe you need something like a POD to use as a preamp to the BJr. The POD would allow you to get the tone that you want from tons of possible amp sounds and effects, at a lower volume on your BJr. For example, you can use a "Marshall Plexi" preset and get the driven sound of a cranked amp, while keeping the actual volume on the BJr very low. The POD even has a "Small Tweed" preset that sounds similar to a "Champ". I use a POD XT and I think it sounds great, but the newer "HD" versions of PODs are supposed to be even better sounding. :idea:

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Posted: Tue Nov 16, 2010 2:30 pm
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I try both, '57 deluxe has very round bass !

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Posted: Tue Nov 16, 2010 3:01 pm
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shimmilou wrote:
Hi islander99,

Maybe you need something like a POD to use as a preamp to the BJr. The POD would allow you to get the tone that you want from tons of possible amp sounds and effects, at a lower volume on your BJr. For example, you can use a "Marshall Plexi" preset and get the driven sound of a cranked amp, while keeping the actual volume on the BJr very low. The POD even has a "Small Tweed" preset that sounds similar to a "Champ". I use a POD XT and I think it sounds great, but the newer "HD" versions of PODs are supposed to be even better sounding. :idea:


A POD ain't close to a Marshall Plexi, Fender Blackface, Tweed or any of the amps it tries to model. Most modeling pedals and amps pretty much miss by a large margin. I know I've played many of the vintage amps and many before they were vintage. The models always lack the character and complexity of the real amps.

If you use a POD it's cool. They're good for what they are. Just don't think it passes as the real deal. And yes, I have passed the stupid blindfold test with some of my sales buddies at the Mom and POP shop I use.

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Post subject: BJr or 57 Dlx RI
Posted: Tue Nov 16, 2010 3:54 pm
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I agree that any amp modeling can't duplicate the originals exactly, but many of the new software based pedals can come very close. I have actually had very good results with my POD. When used with the right amp, it will come surprisingly close to the sound of many of the real amps. I had to adjust all of the POD factory presets to get closer to the original sounds, as most of them were colored with effects. The "Plexi" setting that I have sounds very close to the real Marshall amp when I use my HRDvl 4x10 amp, but the "Champ" preset sounds horrible on that same amp. The "53 Deluxe" setting sounds much better on my HRDlx 1x12. I have had a real Mesa Boogie Triple Rect playing side by side with my HRDvl 4x10 and the POD on the "Treadplate" setting. Even the owner of the MB was surprised how close the sound was. The BJr does most all of the amp models very well when the amp is dialed in clean. If you only use the presets as they came, then you miss out on the full effect of the POD, it is infinitely adjustable for the amp models, mics, effects, speaker cabs, etc. Of course, you also want a very clean, high headroom amp to allow the full tone of the POD amp models to come through. If your amp is in breakup/drive, you can get some cool sounds also, but it will color the amp models and they will sound less accurate. :)

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Post subject:
Posted: Tue Nov 16, 2010 4:26 pm
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I have had various tube amps and also have had a boss pedalboard and a POD.One thing the POD cant replicate is the way a tube amp responds to your pick attack.The touch dynamics of the better tube amps are great,the budget tube amps and modelling amps,not so much.


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Post subject:
Posted: Tue Nov 16, 2010 4:31 pm
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Just depends on your definition of close is and how many of the originals you've actually played. Like I said before, I have a pretty good point of reference in the 40 years I've been playing. I've played everything from real Tweeds and Blackfaces to a couple of Marshalls, Ampegs, Sunns and a few Silvertones, Danelectros and Supros sprinkled in. I've played through early solid state amps and I'm glad they made some serious inroads in solid state amps.
Modeling amps PODS, pedals and such do absolutely nothing for me. But IMO they aren't 'close". They're just sort of okay for what they are. Some digital pedals still have some digital artifacts if your attack is too heavy. Turn up the reverb on the Boss 65 deluxe Reverb pedal and you'll see what I mean.
That's a real shame because I see the road that all this digital stuff is going. Tone is not made of ones and zeros. Sorry, it just isn't. It misses all the tonal nuances and sterilizes it. There is nothing wrong with a little hiss or pops. At least the real deal won't glitch. Might blow a tube or a cap, but that's an easy fix.

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Posted: Tue Nov 16, 2010 4:57 pm
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63supro wrote:
Tone is not made of ones and zeros. Sorry, it just isn't. It misses all the tonal nuances and sterilizes it. There is nothing wrong with a little hiss or pops. At least the real deal won't glitch. Might blow a tube or a cap, but that's an easy fix.


+1000!

"And on the eighth day God made the Super Reverb and He saw that it was good!"

:mrgreen:

Arjay

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Post subject:
Posted: Tue Nov 16, 2010 6:16 pm
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Ones and zeros? That's so last week. :lol: We're way past square waves, and into very good sine wave simulation these days. AAMOF, if you look at the current waveform in the signal path from a POD, it is analog. :idea:

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Post subject:
Posted: Tue Nov 16, 2010 6:43 pm
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shimmilou wrote:
Ones and zeros? That's so last week. :lol: We're way past square waves, and into very good sine wave simulation these days. AAMOF, if you look at the current waveform in the signal path from a POD, it is analog. :idea:


You know what I'm talking about. It still isn't a tube amp by any stretch of the imagination. Does a POD sound interesting? Sometimes. I've heard them sound like arse too. The big trend in some smaller bars around me now is some assclown with a laptop, a POD, a PA system some backing tracks and no talent. One guy recognizes me from one of the bands I play with and starts telling me how great this new setup is and all I wanted to do was have a beer and a sandwich and get out because his tone was like fingernails on a blackboard and way over processed to boot. I was trying to be nice and not say much. But he kept gushing about his shitrig. He was a human Karaoke Machine. I know I'd never play in public to backing tracks, it too embarrassing to me. I remember Todd Rundgren getting slammed and even booed at a show for using tape loops.

The PODs I've tried aren't close to any of the real versions I've owned and played period. If you think they do, great but I know better.

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Post subject:
Posted: Tue Nov 16, 2010 6:47 pm
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63supro wrote:
He was a human Karaoke Machine.


LMFAO!

(prolly has an autographed pic of Milli Vanilli taped to the inside of his guitar case......)

:mrgreen:

Arjay

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