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Post subject: HRD Extension Cab
Posted: Tue Nov 09, 2010 5:08 pm
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I finally pulled the trigger and ordered a Princeton Reverb RI today. It should be here next week. I'm planning on running it with my HRD Extension Cab and my question is this: Can I swap out the speaker in the cab for a Vintage 30 and run it with no problems? I'm still learning about ohms and things like that so I figured I'd just ask (what I hope is) a simple question and get a simple answer. Thanks.

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Posted: Tue Nov 09, 2010 7:09 pm
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Hi jprzech,

Looking at the schematic, you must have something plugged into the "internal speaker jack" of the amp at all times, it is a shorting jack. You can use an 8-ohm or 16-ohm speaker using the "internal speaker jack" only. I've seen the V30 listed as 8-ohm, and also as 16-ohm, either will work. If you want to use the "external speaker jack" on the amp, connect an open jack in the "internal speaker jack", and connect an 8-ohm or 16-ohm speaker into the "external speaker jack". Ideally you want an 8-ohm speaker load, in any combination. So, I would use the external cabinet with the V30 plugged into the "internal speaker jack" of the amp, the amps internal speaker unhooked, and nothing plugged into the "external speaker jack" of the amp. :)

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Posted: Tue Nov 09, 2010 7:46 pm
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Hmmm. Interesting. I already swapped out the stock speaker in the extension cab for the Vintage 30 (8 ohm). I figured I could run the internal speaker on the Princeton and use the external speaker jack to run the 8 ohm Vintage 30 in the extension cab. Am I wrong in thinking this? It seems I might be.

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Posted: Tue Nov 09, 2010 8:25 pm
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The rated speaker load on this amp is 8-ohms total. If you use both jacks, each with an 8-ohm speaker, that would be 4-ohm total speaker load. You can run a 4-ohm load (both speakers), it's just not really recommended for optimal performance of the amp. With a 4-ohm load, you can reach full output power of the amp at a lower volume setting, different distortion characteristics, and it will sound different. :idea:

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Posted: Tue Nov 09, 2010 9:56 pm
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shimmilou wrote:
With a 4-ohm load, you can reach full output power of the amp at a lower volume setting, different distortion characteristics, and it will sound different. :idea:


In this under-loaded configuration the current flow through the PRRI's output tranny is nearly doubled.

Is it harmful to the amp? That depends upon how robust that tranny is.

"Back in the day" the vintage Fender iron was deliberately over-built to permit a 100% mis-match such as this.

Can the new O/T absorb such rigorous abuse?

I wish I had that answer.

Arjay

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Posted: Wed Nov 10, 2010 7:05 am
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If this is so, and I'm not disputing that it is, how do artists like Ryan Adams run their Princetons through speaker cabs? I've read interviews with RA (one of my favorites and the catalyst for my Princeton fetish) in which he talks about his Princetons and how he runs them through VibroKing cabs. However, he also mentions the speakers he has in the Princetons themselves, which I don't see the need for if he can't run it all together. I apologize, I appreciate all the input here and I'm not trying to be difficult here, I'm really just trying to understand fully.

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Posted: Wed Nov 10, 2010 7:33 am
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Are you sure that Ryan is using the external cab AND the internal speaker together? I know that some artists change the stock speaker for something else, maybe a 16-ohm? You could use a 16-ohm internal speaker and a 16-ohm external cab at the same time, no problem. But, as we've said you CAN run a 4-ohm load, it just isn't best practice, not ideal operating conditions for the amp. If the external speaker is 16-ohm, and the internal 8-ohm, the two together would give about 6-ohms, which would also work, again just not ideal.

If you want to run a 4-ohm load, and it doesn't make the amp hotter than normal, no problem (depends on how loud that you turn it up). Remember that big money artists can afford to push their amps in ways that could damage the amps, and they often do, but you don't really hear about how many amps that they might go through in a year. (Think EVH, Neil Young)

For more input, maybe send Fender an email and see what they say about it. I have always felt that impedance matching was more important with hi-fi stereo amps than with guitar amps, but I have not wanted to test that on my own amps. :idea: :)

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Posted: Wed Nov 10, 2010 8:39 am
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shimmilou wrote:
I have always felt that impedance matching was more important with hi-fi stereo amps than with guitar amps, but I have not wanted to test that on my own amps. :idea: :)


Indeed!

My own ignorace as a kid was responsible for burning up a couple of amps way back when. As a result, I'm now a lot more conservative and cognizant of the issues at play when experimenting with amp/speaker combos. But back to the subject at hand, why would anyone even want to bother using the PRRI's crappy Jensen OEM 10" speaker in conjunction with a Vibroking cab stuffed with a pair of patently superior Celestion Greenbacks or V30's? Relatively speaking, it would be drag to the tone at modest volume levels and when the amp were really pushed it probably wouldn't be audible at all. JMO.

Arjay

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Posted: Wed Nov 10, 2010 10:27 am
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From the PRRI owner's manual:

N. EXTERNAL SPEAKER—Plug-in connection for an external speaker. This jack is wired in parallel with the INTERNAL SPEAKER JACK {M} and affects the speaker impedance load. Use 8Ω minimum total. To use the external speaker output, first disconnect the internal speaker. Then connect a 16Ω speaker load (minimum) to the internal speaker jack and another 16Ω
speaker load (minimum) the external speaker jack.

Seems pretty clear to me.

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Posted: Wed Nov 10, 2010 11:26 am
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bluesky636 wrote:
From the PRRI owner's manual:

N. EXTERNAL SPEAKER—Plug-in connection for an external speaker. This jack is wired in parallel with the INTERNAL SPEAKER JACK {M} and affects the speaker impedance load. Use 8Ω minimum total. To use the external speaker output, first disconnect the internal speaker. Then connect a 16Ω speaker load (minimum) to the internal speaker jack and another 16Ω
speaker load (minimum) the external speaker jack.

Seems pretty clear to me.


"When in doubt, whip it out."

(the manual, that is)

Good call, Bill!

Arjay

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Posted: Wed Nov 10, 2010 12:10 pm
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jprzech wrote:
...I already swapped out the stock speaker in the extension cab for the Vintage 30 (8 ohm)....


Have you had a chance to try the V 30 and draw comparisons to the G12P 80 speaker that came in the HRd cab? If not, please let us know when you do. I have the HRd cab too, and have been considering replacing the speaker. :)

Make sure to check out the manual when your amp arrives, about speakers etc. :wink:

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Posted: Thu Nov 11, 2010 11:11 pm
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I haven't yet, but will keep you posted.

So for the dummy jack to put into the internal speaker, can I use any 1/4" input? Like can I use a patch cable or something? I think for starters I'll run the 8ohm vintage 30 in the HRD cab and work from there.

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Posted: Fri Nov 12, 2010 3:02 am
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jprzech wrote:
I haven't yet, but will keep you posted.

So for the dummy jack to put into the internal speaker, can I use any 1/4" input? Like can I use a patch cable or something? I think for starters I'll run the 8ohm vintage 30 in the HRD cab and work from there.


You just want to use a plain, open circuit phone plug, not a patch cable. You risk the other end of the patch cable touching something metal and shorting things out. Just buy a new phone plug or use an old spare and plug it in. Nothing needs to be connected to the plug.

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Posted: Fri Nov 12, 2010 11:08 am
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OK, will do.

I'm looking into speakers now. I'm going to get a 16ohm vintage 30 to put in the HRD extension cab and I think I'll get a 16 ohm speaker for the Princeton as well. Can I just swap out speakers with different ohm ratings like that?

I know I've asked a myriad of questions in this thread and I appreciate all the responses and your patience with my ignorance.

EDIT: Also, how difficult is it to turn a 1x10 into a 1x12? I've read about a lot of people doing this to Princetons.

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Posted: Fri Nov 12, 2010 11:19 am
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jprzech wrote:
Can I just swap out speakers with different ohm ratings like that?


Sure.

Just be certain that you have the two speakers phased correctly when you wire them up.

What 10" were you planning on?

Arjay

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