It is currently Tue Mar 17, 2020 4:30 am

All times are UTC - 7 hours



Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 46 posts ]  Go to page Previous  1, 2, 3, 4  Next
Go to page Previous  1, 2, 3, 4  Next
Author Message
Post subject:
Posted: Sun Nov 07, 2010 10:39 am
Offline
Rock Icon
Rock Icon
User avatar

Joined: Wed Mar 31, 2010 12:48 am
Posts: 26417
Location: Tombstone Territory
63supro wrote:
You won't see any of these current production amps around in 20 years let alone 40.


Are you telling me that there'll be no re-issue of the legendary "blackface" Frontman series thirty years from now?!?!?

I'm crushed!

(pass the kleenex)

:mrgreen:

Arjay

_________________
"Here's why reliability is job one: A great sounding amp that breaks down goes from being a favorite piece of gear to a useless piece of crap in less time than it takes to read this sentence." -- BRUCE ZINKY


Top
Profile
Fender Play Winter Sale 2020
Post subject:
Posted: Sun Nov 07, 2010 10:52 am
Offline
Roadie
Roadie
User avatar

Joined: Fri Jan 25, 2008 12:06 am
Posts: 292
Location: SoCal
This is an important, and so far on this thread, wise discussion. I hope it doesn't devolve in to political theater and get locked. Here is a very interesting recent web page that is germane to this discussion:

http://finance.yahoo.com/tech-ticker/19 ... -container

To bolster my bona fides, I am trying to buy as usa-based as I can. For instance, I love Martin strings, but they now manufacture out of the country. I purchased a USA Strat and a USA DRRI (but I do have a PRC SCXD too, so purity is not my long suit either).


Top
Profile
Post subject:
Posted: Sun Nov 07, 2010 12:35 pm
Offline
Aspiring Musician
Aspiring Musician

Joined: Fri Jun 11, 2010 12:33 am
Posts: 650
I honestly don't know about Fender's USA blue collar workforce's pay scale but I don't think the majority of that workforce is union labor if at all.

Being that the US factory is in Corona, I am betting that the labor force is largely hispanic and the pay is perhaps around minimum wage to $10 bucks an hour. Guitar builders and other products aside, and strictly amps, only the crew that actually cut the lumber and assemble cabinet, punch and bend the sheetmetal for the chassis are the ones making the most in the amp department and that's still questionable. I can only imagine that the metal lables are outsourced, as well a majority of internal components.
The handwired amps would likely have their circuit board made here but then, if it's like what others have said that too may have been made elsewhere.

Let's not forget that while there are a lot of companies that manufacture here, a majority of them employ an awful lot of automation and processes that eliminated a lot of the hands-on labor of the past.

It's kind of a catch 22. You have a company and you have a product, competition comes to town and you have to compete with that company.
They sell their product for less and the price wars begin and corners start getting cut until one day, the factory shuts down or moves out of town.

Corporate greed does play a significant role in the current state of domestic productivity, let's not forget the investors who have a say in the company's affairs, but also the american people, themselves, also play a role in the matter. I think that corporate greed is a disease that affects many, many, many people.

When I said it was sad that we cannot afford to pay our fellow americans, I meant just that. "WE" the people, have been conditioned to save our money and part of that ethic fueled frugalism and stinginess to a point
that we have forced most everybody else to be frugal and stingy.

So, the problem is a mental problem on a national level.
China kicking some serious butt in the industrial arena. When I see that and see how the US is responding to that battleground, I see a peculiar strategy being played:
"Let's defeat the US economically, we will enslave ourselves to produce their goods, until we have sucked their fundamental industrial infrastructure dry, and they will want to give us their land to pay their debts."
or
"Welcome to my lair, said the spider to the fly..."

Of course, if that theory is true, it would require the involvement of greedy corporate heads and investors as well as greedy politicians.

I understand that the Chinese are becoming wealthy enough to afford cars, and cars demand oil and fuel - we don't make that stuff and are big consumers of it. Their increasing demand for oil will only drive the cost of oil up for the US.

Indeed, "Made In USA" IS a political topic.

IMHO, either bring the production back to town or expect a third world future when the money well runs dry.

A future last product is awaiting the US and you can call it "National Self Destruction"
--Made With Pride In USA--
:roll:
Your Mileage May Vary, if you can afford the gas.


Top
Profile
Post subject:
Posted: Sun Nov 07, 2010 2:29 pm
Offline
Rock Icon
Rock Icon
User avatar

Joined: Wed Mar 31, 2010 12:48 am
Posts: 26417
Location: Tombstone Territory
Twinhit wrote:
I honestly don't know about Fender's USA blue collar workforce's pay scale but I don't think the majority of that workforce is union labor if at all.

Being that the US factory is in Corona, I am betting that the labor force is largely hispanic and the pay is perhaps around minimum wage to $10 bucks an hour. Guitar builders and other products aside, and strictly amps, only the crew that actually cut the lumber and assemble cabinet, punch and bend the sheetmetal for the chassis are the ones making the most in the amp department and that's still questionable. I can only imagine that the metal lables are outsourced, as well a majority of internal components.
The handwired amps would likely have their circuit board made here but then, if it's like what others have said that too may have been made elsewhere.

Let's not forget that while there are a lot of companies that manufacture here, a majority of them employ an awful lot of automation and processes that eliminated a lot of the hands-on labor of the past.

It's kind of a catch 22. You have a company and you have a product, competition comes to town and you have to compete with that company.
They sell their product for less and the price wars begin and corners start getting cut until one day, the factory shuts down or moves out of town.

Corporate greed does play a significant role in the current state of domestic productivity, let's not forget the investors who have a say in the company's affairs, but also the american people, themselves, also play a role in the matter. I think that corporate greed is a disease that affects many, many, many people.

When I said it was sad that we cannot afford to pay our fellow americans, I meant just that. "WE" the people, have been conditioned to save our money and part of that ethic fueled frugalism and stinginess to a point
that we have forced most everybody else to be frugal and stingy.

So, the problem is a mental problem on a national level.
China kicking some serious butt in the industrial arena. When I see that and see how the US is responding to that battleground, I see a peculiar strategy being played:
"Let's defeat the US economically, we will enslave ourselves to produce their goods, until we have sucked their fundamental industrial infrastructure dry, and they will want to give us their land to pay their debts."
or
"Welcome to my lair, said the spider to the fly..."

Of course, if that theory is true, it would require the involvement of greedy corporate heads and investors as well as greedy politicians.

I understand that the Chinese are becoming wealthy enough to afford cars, and cars demand oil and fuel - we don't make that stuff and are big consumers of it. Their increasing demand for oil will only drive the cost of oil up for the US.

Indeed, "Made In USA" IS a political topic.

IMHO, either bring the production back to town or expect a third world future when the money well runs dry.

A future last product is awaiting the US and you can call it "National Self Destruction"
--Made With Pride In USA--
:roll:
Your Mileage May Vary, if you can afford the gas.


(prolly the most intelligent thing you've ever posted on this forum)

Arjay

_________________
"Here's why reliability is job one: A great sounding amp that breaks down goes from being a favorite piece of gear to a useless piece of crap in less time than it takes to read this sentence." -- BRUCE ZINKY


Top
Profile
Post subject:
Posted: Sun Nov 07, 2010 3:53 pm
Offline
Hobbyist
Hobbyist
User avatar

Joined: Thu Sep 17, 2009 11:10 pm
Posts: 25
Location: Humble, Texas USA
Actually, Fender doesn't do that bad in producing US-made amps that we can afford.

Here are places of origin for some Fenders and for a few other amps. The UK folks have the same issues -- most of the Orange, Marshall and Vox amps long associated with the UK that are priced under $1,000 also originate in Asia.

The Orange list is the most complete. The Marshall and Vox lists have holes because I was unable to see large images of the backside where I could read points of origin. For those, I'll have to go to Guitar Center on a field trip and turn everything around for a look.

I will keep working on this list but for now, this is what I saw/learned....


FENDER

Fender Deluxe VM 1x12" 40-watt Tube Guitar Amplifier with Onboard Reverb, Delay, and Chorus/Vibrato DSP Effects, Equalization Controls, and Included 4-button Footswitch -- Made in Mexico

Fender Acoustasonic SFX II 80W Dual-channel Amplifier with Instrument and Mic Inputs, Stereo Field Expansion Effect, and Onboard DSP -- Made in Mexico

Fender Frontman 212R 100W 2x12" Guitar Combo Amp -- Made in China

Fender Mustang II 40-watt, 1 x 12" Combo Guitar Amplifier with Onboard Effects and USB for Effects Management and Recording -- Made in China

Fender Vibro Champ XD 5-watt Class A Tube Guitar Combo Amp with DSP and 16 Different Amp Voicings -- Made in China

Fender Super Champ XD 15-watt Class AB Tube Guitar Combo Amp with DSP and 16 Different Amp Voicings -- Made in China

Fender G-DEC 3 Thirty 30-watt Guitar Combo Amp with a Single 10" Speaker and Onboard Accompaniment-- Made in Indonesia

Fender '65 Princeton Reverb Single-channel 15-watt, 1 x 10 Tube Guitar Combo Amp with Reverb and Vibrato -- Made in USA

Fender '65 Super Reverb 45-watt 4 x 10" Guitar Combo Amp - Vintage Reissue of Fender Blackface Super Reverb -- Made in USA

Fender '65 Twin Reverb 2-channel, 85-watt 2 x 12" Guitar Combo Amp - Vintage Reissue of '65 Fender Twin Reverb -- Made in USA

Fender '59 Bassman LTD 45W, 4 x 10" Tube Guitar Amplifier — Vintage Reissue -- Made in USA


ORANGE

Orange Dual Terror Head 2-channel Tube Amplifier Head with 30-, 15-, and 7-watt Power Settings -- Made in China

Orange Tiny Terror Head 15W/7W Tube Guitar Head -- Made in China

Orange CR35LDX 35-watt Combo Guitar Amplifier with Onboard Effects and Tuner -- Made in China

Orange Rockerverb 50 MkII 50-watt, 2-channel Tube Head with Reverb and Effects Loop - Black -- Made in England

Orange Thunderverb 50 Head 50-watt 2-channel All-tube Class A/B Head with Reverb and an Attenuator -- Made in England

Orange AD30 30-watt, 2-channel Tube Amplifier Head -- Made in England

Orange Rocker 30 Head 30-watt, 2-channel Tube Amplifier Head with Two EL34 Power Tubes, Three ECC83 Preamp Tubes, and Class A Operation -- Made in England


MARSHALL

Marshall MA series - Made in Asia

Marshall MG series - Made in Asia

Marshall Haze - Made in Asia

Marshall Class 5 combo - Made in England

Marshall Lead 12 microstack and combo - Made in England

Marshall JVM205C 50-watt All-tube Guitar Combo Amp with 1 x 12" Vintage Speaker, 1 x 12" Modern Speaker, 2 Channels, 3 Modes, Reverb, Effects Loops, MIDI switching, Line Out, and Programmable Footswitch -- Made in England

Marshall JVM210H 100-watt All-tube Guitar Amp Head with 2 Channels, 3 Modes, Reverb, Effects Loops, MIDI switching, Line Out, and Programmable Footswitch -- Made in England


VOX

Vox AC15 Custom 15-watt, 1 x 12" Tube Guitar Amp Combo -- Made in Vietnam



LINE 6

Line 6 DT50 212 50W/25W 2 x 12" Combo Guitar Amplifier with Dynamic Analog Circuitry and HD Modeling -- Made in China

Line 6 DT50 112 50W/25W 1 x 12" Combo Guitar Amplifier with Dynamic Analog Circuitry and HD Modeling -- Made in China

Line 6 Spider IV 75 75-watt 1x12" Modeling Guitar Combo Amp with 16 Amp Models and 20 Effects -- Made in China



PEAVEY

Peavey Windsor Studio 15W 1x12" Guitar Combo Amp with Spring Reverb, Boost Switch, and XLR Direct Out -- Made in China


Top
Profile
Post subject:
Posted: Sun Nov 07, 2010 4:01 pm
Offline
Aspiring Musician
Aspiring Musician
User avatar

Joined: Sat May 08, 2010 4:31 am
Posts: 411
Location: France
I've been working for electronics industry since 30 years (hoping up to retirement) and I can say that I've seen the end of Eu/US industry! : Japanese emergent electronic market 70-80, compagny globalization 90-2000, compagny regionalization now ! What next?

_________________
Tissan '52 Tele RI & Washburn Hawk 1980, Epiphone Casino MIK, Blues Deluxe RI & VOX ...


Top
Profile
Post subject:
Posted: Sun Nov 07, 2010 4:52 pm
Offline
Rock Star
Rock Star
User avatar

Joined: Tue Aug 07, 2007 2:19 pm
Posts: 8827
Retroverbial wrote:
63supro wrote:
You won't see any of these current production amps around in 20 years let alone 40.


Are you telling me that there'll be no re-issue of the legendary "blackface" Frontman series thirty years from now?!?!?

I'm crushed!

(pass the kleenex)

:mrgreen:

Arjay



LMAO :D

_________________
Life...... It's sexually transmitted and always fatal


Top
Profile
Post subject:
Posted: Sun Nov 07, 2010 5:28 pm
Offline
Rock Icon
Rock Icon
User avatar

Joined: Wed Mar 31, 2010 12:48 am
Posts: 26417
Location: Tombstone Territory
Tissan wrote:
What next?


That's a no-brainer, Tissan.

We'll all soon be playing through iPod-based platforms, built with slave labor in the "Cooperative of Turd-denia". Upscale models will be integrated right into a new line of "modeling guitars" from Cort, made in the "Republic of Budget-istan".

They'll be priced at twenty-five "Ameros" -- the new NAFTA currency -- with a five-Amero introductory mail-in rebate......assuming the USPS hasn't gone totally "Tango Uniform" due to private-carrier competition.

David Gilmore will be the first artist to have his own signature model.

:mrgreen:

Arjay

_________________
"Here's why reliability is job one: A great sounding amp that breaks down goes from being a favorite piece of gear to a useless piece of crap in less time than it takes to read this sentence." -- BRUCE ZINKY


Top
Profile
Post subject:
Posted: Sun Nov 07, 2010 5:39 pm
Offline
Rock Star
Rock Star
User avatar

Joined: Fri Feb 29, 2008 9:49 pm
Posts: 3233
Location: Memphis
Retroverbial wrote:
Tissan wrote:
What next?


That's a no-brainer, Tissan.

We'll all soon be playing through iPod-based platforms, built with slave labor in the "Cooperative of Turd-denia". Upscale models will be integrated right into a new line of "modeling guitars" from Cort, made in the "Republic of Budget-istan".

They'll be priced at twenty-five "Ameros" -- the new NAFTA currency -- with a five-Amero introductory mail-in rebate......assuming the USPS hasn't gone totally "Tango Uniform" due to private-carrier competition.

David Gilmore will be the first artist to have his own signature model.

:mrgreen:

Arjay


Its kind of funny how the truth cracks me up! :D

_________________
Hey, Boy Blue is back!


Top
Profile
Post subject:
Posted: Sun Nov 07, 2010 5:40 pm
Offline
Rock Icon
Rock Icon
User avatar

Joined: Wed Mar 31, 2010 12:48 am
Posts: 26417
Location: Tombstone Territory
Scary too, Bill.

Arjay

_________________
"Here's why reliability is job one: A great sounding amp that breaks down goes from being a favorite piece of gear to a useless piece of crap in less time than it takes to read this sentence." -- BRUCE ZINKY


Top
Profile
Post subject:
Posted: Sun Nov 07, 2010 11:47 pm
Offline
Aspiring Musician
Aspiring Musician

Joined: Fri Jun 11, 2010 12:33 am
Posts: 650
Retroverbial wrote:
Twinhit wrote:
I honestly don't know about Fender's USA blue collar workforce's pay scale but I don't think the majority of that workforce is union labor if at all.

Being that the US factory is in Corona, I am betting that the labor force is largely hispanic and the pay is perhaps around minimum wage to $10 bucks an hour. Guitar builders and other products aside, and strictly amps, only the crew that actually cut the lumber and assemble cabinet, punch and bend the sheetmetal for the chassis are the ones making the most in the amp department and that's still questionable. I can only imagine that the metal lables are outsourced, as well a majority of internal components.
The handwired amps would likely have their circuit board made here but then, if it's like what others have said that too may have been made elsewhere.

Let's not forget that while there are a lot of companies that manufacture here, a majority of them employ an awful lot of automation and processes that eliminated a lot of the hands-on labor of the past.

It's kind of a catch 22. You have a company and you have a product, competition comes to town and you have to compete with that company.
They sell their product for less and the price wars begin and corners start getting cut until one day, the factory shuts down or moves out of town.

Corporate greed does play a significant role in the current state of domestic productivity, let's not forget the investors who have a say in the company's affairs, but also the american people, themselves, also play a role in the matter. I think that corporate greed is a disease that affects many, many, many people.

When I said it was sad that we cannot afford to pay our fellow americans, I meant just that. "WE" the people, have been conditioned to save our money and part of that ethic fueled frugalism and stinginess to a point
that we have forced most everybody else to be frugal and stingy.

So, the problem is a mental problem on a national level.
China kicking some serious butt in the industrial arena. When I see that and see how the US is responding to that battleground, I see a peculiar strategy being played:
"Let's defeat the US economically, we will enslave ourselves to produce their goods, until we have sucked their fundamental industrial infrastructure dry, and they will want to give us their land to pay their debts."
or
"Welcome to my lair, said the spider to the fly..."

Of course, if that theory is true, it would require the involvement of greedy corporate heads and investors as well as greedy politicians.

I understand that the Chinese are becoming wealthy enough to afford cars, and cars demand oil and fuel - we don't make that stuff and are big consumers of it. Their increasing demand for oil will only drive the cost of oil up for the US.

Indeed, "Made In USA" IS a political topic.

IMHO, either bring the production back to town or expect a third world future when the money well runs dry.

A future last product is awaiting the US and you can call it "National Self Destruction"
--Made With Pride In USA--
:roll:
Your Mileage May Vary, if you can afford the gas.


(prolly the most intelligent thing you've ever posted on this forum)

Arjay



Now, what do they call it when corporations put politicians in office and tell them to sit down and shut up and sign the legislation?


Top
Profile
Post subject:
Posted: Sun Nov 07, 2010 11:59 pm
Offline
Rock Icon
Rock Icon
User avatar

Joined: Wed Mar 31, 2010 12:48 am
Posts: 26417
Location: Tombstone Territory
Twinhit wrote:
Now, what do they call it when corporations put politicians in office and tell them to sit down and shut up and sign the legislation?


Corporations call that "smart".

Arjay

_________________
"Here's why reliability is job one: A great sounding amp that breaks down goes from being a favorite piece of gear to a useless piece of crap in less time than it takes to read this sentence." -- BRUCE ZINKY


Top
Profile
Post subject:
Posted: Mon Nov 08, 2010 7:36 am
Offline
Roadie
Roadie
User avatar

Joined: Mon Sep 17, 2007 2:44 pm
Posts: 236
Location: Winnipeg, MB
mldevore wrote:
PEAVEY

Peavey Windsor Studio 15W 1x12" Guitar Combo Amp with Spring Reverb, Boost Switch, and XLR Direct Out -- Made in China


My Classic 30 is MIA. My understanding is that the Classic 50 and Delta Blues amplifiers are also made in Mississippi. Not sure about Peavey's other tube amps (the more rock/metal ones).


Top
Profile
Post subject:
Posted: Mon Nov 08, 2010 12:58 pm
Offline
Aspiring Musician
Aspiring Musician
User avatar

Joined: Sat May 08, 2010 4:31 am
Posts: 411
Location: France
Retro: I expect not to see that 8) 8) 8) 8) 8)

_________________
Tissan '52 Tele RI & Washburn Hawk 1980, Epiphone Casino MIK, Blues Deluxe RI & VOX ...


Top
Profile
Post subject:
Posted: Mon Nov 08, 2010 1:36 pm
Offline
Aspiring Musician
Aspiring Musician

Joined: Fri Jun 11, 2010 12:33 am
Posts: 650
Retroverbial wrote:
Twinhit wrote:
Now, what do they call it when corporations put politicians in office and tell them to sit down and shut up and sign the legislation?


Corporations call that "smart".

Arjay


And what do the people call that system of government?


Top
Profile
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 46 posts ]  Go to page Previous  1, 2, 3, 4  Next
Go to page Previous  1, 2, 3, 4  Next

All times are UTC - 7 hours

Fender Play Winter Sale 2020

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 2 guests


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum

Search for:
Jump to: