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Post subject: tube breakup
Posted: Fri Nov 05, 2010 12:26 pm
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i have a 410 blues deville. as i'm sure most of you know, this is quite the beast of an amp. i'm interested in getting as much tube breakup as possible, at the lowest possible volume (as i'm sure many are). it's currently almost stock (i replaced the v1 preamp tube with a jj because it became microphonic). i have an emg afterburner in my guitar, and it definitely does a lot to push the preamp tubes. so let me go ahead and ask the newbie question, because i've pushed my amp into overdrive before, but i'm not really sure the mechanics of what is happening: does it come from the preamp tubes, or power tubes, or both? i guess i can answer part of that, because the boost does create some breakup, so at least some can come from the preamp tubes, if not all. also, i'm wondering if there is a particular preamp or power tube that breaks up sooner? i've looked into attenuators, and i'd rather not go down that road at the moment. i would just really prefer to throw the dirt pedal off my board altogether, because that natural breakup is what i really wanna hear anyway.

so to summarize, i guess i'm looking for suggestions on what tubes i should be using to get breakup sooner, and does that focus primarily on preamp or power tubes, or both?

thanks in advance for any info, and sorry about getting into a bit of a rant!


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Posted: Fri Nov 05, 2010 1:03 pm
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It is really both preamp and output tubes that determine the sound. Also, how the output tubes are biased will affect the sound also. My HRDvl 4x10 came with the Sovtek 12AX7WC preamp tubes in all three spots, which are a higher gain tube. They give me a fairly clean sound, with a little grit when pushed. I also tried Sovtek 12AX7WA which were even cleaner, with a little more headroom. A 12AT7 in V1 was really clean, not much breakup at all until very high volume. With each different preamp tube that I tried, I kept the Sovtek 5881 (GT6L6 Red Label) output tubes and I think that those aren't good for a lot of early breakup, in fact the Blue label are for early breakup, and the Red label for clean headroom. So, in this amp, you may need a combination of both preamp and output tubes to get the sound that you want.

You may want to check out the different packages available for tubes that are put together to give the sound that you want. The descriptions will at least give you an idea of which tubes you might want to try. Eurotubes offers packages like this, and I'm sure that there are other places that sell them too. Lot of great info on the Eurotubes site. Also check out thetubestore for more great info and tubes. I have dealt with both places, and they are both excellent. :)

https://ssl.eurotubes.com/cart/index.php?page=view_products&category_id=7&sub_category_id=32

http://thetubestore.com/fenderhotrod.html

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Posted: Fri Nov 05, 2010 1:15 pm
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hey, thanks shimmilou!!! :D

great info! will check out the sites. sounds like you pointed me precisely in the right direction!

thanks again!


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Posted: Fri Nov 05, 2010 3:21 pm
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The power tubes can also be purchased as "early breakup", "normal breakup" or "late breakup. With the early breakup tubes starting to distort at a lower volume level. Some suppliers offer you a choice when ordering, others dont. I have Blue(early breakup) GT's in my twin reverb and it starts to break up at about 5, which is still way too loud, but at least it's another alternative.

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Posted: Fri Nov 05, 2010 3:39 pm
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fender323 wrote:
...I have Blue(early breakup) GT's in my twin reverb...


I am a Groove Tubes fan too, but on the other end of the breakup point, I use the red label. I think that breakup at 5 is darned good for a twin reverb. :lol: But you are right, that is one loud amp. 8)

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Posted: Fri Nov 05, 2010 4:59 pm
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Hey-I gotta thank you again shimmilou. Just got off eurotube. It looks to me like even if I had the knowledge to know which tubes to pick on my own, I wouldn't be able to individually order them for as cheap as that guy is offering the sets! Thanks again man!


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Posted: Fri Nov 05, 2010 5:57 pm
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shimmilou wrote:
But you are right, that is one loud amp.


Indeed!

It's a great platform for pedals, with headroom to burn.

Arjay

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Post subject: Speaker?????$$$$$$
Posted: Thu Nov 18, 2010 12:23 am
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Mr. Kingharvest,

Although very expensive, you may want to explore speakers. With 4 tens you have a lot of options in matching a variety of speakers. Reason is, overdive and breakup is mostly the result of tubes, however an important factor often overlooked are speakers. Check online, there are a number of resources for how speakers are part of the break-up that you may be seeking at lower volumes. I've read that speaker design, i.e., no dope, smoth cone, small voice coil, magnet type all contribute to how soon and how much a speaker sounds when drivin at lower volumes, and how the opposite can increase volume and clean overhead. You can also contact a few speaker designers and they may be of help.

Good luck in your quest.


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Posted: Sat Nov 20, 2010 12:45 pm
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I fixed up my old 20 watt 1982 Peavey backstage with a Celestion tube 10. It is their least expensive 10' speaker. It is not real efficient, and has a small voice coil. I use a tube preamp into it and have to set the levels low and take out almost all the amps tone controls except bass.

In a nutshell, I am loving the tones for practice levels, very natural tube sound all coming from 12ax7's. In the preamp I have a mix of a vintage telefunken ribbed plate in v1 and a high gain 90's era chinese groove tube in v2.

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Post subject: Re: tube breakup
Posted: Sat Nov 20, 2010 6:47 pm
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KingHarvest wrote:
so to summarize, i guess i'm looking for suggestions on what tubes i should be using to get breakup sooner, and does that focus primarily on preamp or power tubes, or both?

thanks in advance for any info, and sorry about getting into a bit of a rant!


Scientifically speaking, break up has to do with entire chain from your guitar through the pream tubes into the power tubes. The signal can be broken up in any of these phases.

Checkout this series of videos for a great explanation.
http://www.oldtonezone.com/2010/01/unde ... ion-chain/

http://www.oldtonezone.com/2009/12/unde ... wer-tubes/

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