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Post subject: Blues Deluxe RI + 2x12 extension cab
Posted: Mon Nov 01, 2010 8:40 pm
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Hey everyone,

I'm "new" to the board, but have been reading threads and gaining much information, for quite sometime...prior to actually registering. Anyway, I've been looking at buying a custom made 2x12 cab, as I have two extra 12 inch speakers sitting in the closet. The two extras are BOTH 8ohm speakers, as well as the speaker in my BDRI (Tone Tubby Alnico). I quickly looked at the owners manual to see what I could find out about the external speaker jack. All it said was that to use the external jack, the MAIN speaker jack must always be plugged in as well. SO, my questions are...

Could I just hook up the two 12 inch speakers into the cab and use them simultaneously with the 12 inch speaker that is in the amp itself? Are there any wattage, overload, or impedance risks?

I've searched multiple sites and forums on the web, but there seems to be so much varying replies and opinions. So much so, it's pretty confusing, so I decided to ask you all here at the actual FENDER forum! I hope someone can set me straight, I'd appreciate it!


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Posted: Mon Nov 01, 2010 8:53 pm
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The BDRI is intended to be used with an 8 ohm extension cab. Less load than that puts the output tranny at some risk.

HTH

Arjay

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"Here's why reliability is job one: A great sounding amp that breaks down goes from being a favorite piece of gear to a useless piece of crap in less time than it takes to read this sentence." -- BRUCE ZINKY


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Posted: Mon Nov 01, 2010 9:16 pm
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Retroverbial wrote:
The BDRI is intended to be used with an 8 ohm extension cab. Less load than that puts the output tranny at some risk.

HTH

Arjay


Partly true.

The spec sheet gives the rated power at both 8 and 4 ohms at 5% thd. When used with an internal speaker, the external speaker is connected in parallel with the internal speaker. The external speaker should be 8 ohms when used with the internal speaker. If an external speaker is used without the internal speaker, the external speaker must be 4 ohms as it is connected to a 4 ohm tap on the output transformer.

Two 8 ohm speakers wired in series in the external cabinet and used in parallel with the internal 8 ohm speaker would present a load of about 5 ohms. Given that speaker impedance is a complex number and varies with frequency, using a series wired external cabinet with the internal speaker would most likely be safe. YMMV

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Posted: Mon Nov 01, 2010 10:11 pm
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bluesky636 wrote:
Two 8 ohm speakers wired in series in the external cabinet and used in parallel with the internal 8 ohm speaker would present a load of about 5 ohms.


I concur. And a 5 ohm total load should pose no problem whatsoever for the amp in that configuration. Good call!

Arjay

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"Here's why reliability is job one: A great sounding amp that breaks down goes from being a favorite piece of gear to a useless piece of crap in less time than it takes to read this sentence." -- BRUCE ZINKY


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Post subject: Re: Blues Deluxe RI + 2x12 extension cab
Posted: Mon Nov 01, 2010 11:22 pm
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Joined: Fri Jun 11, 2010 12:33 am
Posts: 650
SpACEdDeadhead wrote:
Hey everyone,

I'm "new" to the board, but have been reading threads and gaining much information, for quite sometime...prior to actually registering. Anyway, I've been looking at buying a custom made 2x12 cab, as I have two extra 12 inch speakers sitting in the closet. The two extras are BOTH 8ohm speakers, as well as the speaker in my BDRI (Tone Tubby Alnico). I quickly looked at the owners manual to see what I could find out about the external speaker jack. All it said was that to use the external jack, the MAIN speaker jack must always be plugged in as well. SO, my questions are...

Could I just hook up the two 12 inch speakers into the cab and use them simultaneously with the 12 inch speaker that is in the amp itself? Are there any wattage, overload, or impedance risks?

I've searched multiple sites and forums on the web, but there seems to be so much varying replies and opinions. So much so, it's pretty confusing, so I decided to ask you all here at the actual FENDER forum! I hope someone can set me straight, I'd appreciate it!



I've read this plus Retro and Bluesky's responses.
SpACEdDeadhead, are you wanting to use just the external speaker?
or what would be all three? ie the internal plus the external??
It looks like you're saying you want to go both ways.

IF you wanted to just go with the external 2x12, you could probably unplug the current main speaker, then, plug 1 speaker into that same main speaker jack and 1 speaker into the external jack.
ie two chords between the BDRI cab and external cab. One cord per speaker.

I know I've plugged my BDRI into a 200w 8 ohm bass cab using that external jack. Didn't have any problems. That can be varified with the fact that Fender makes a 1x12 8 ohm external cab with the Hot Rod Series, which includes the BDRI, in mind.
See specs
http://www.fender.com/products/search.p ... 2231010700
As for that primary internal speaker....
It's wise to leave a speaker with 8 ohm impedance plugged into that primary jack and you may want to mark that same jack so you don't make the mistake of plugging into the external cab. In short, if I am reading that manual right, there should always be a 8 ohm loaded plug in that internal speaker jack.

Thought I would share this link if it's of any help.
http://www.colomar.com/Shavano/2x12wiring.html


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Post subject: Re: Blues Deluxe RI + 2x12 extension cab
Posted: Tue Nov 02, 2010 9:32 am
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Twinhit wrote:
SpACEdDeadhead wrote:
Hey everyone,

I'm "new" to the board, but have been reading threads and gaining much information, for quite sometime...prior to actually registering. Anyway, I've been looking at buying a custom made 2x12 cab, as I have two extra 12 inch speakers sitting in the closet. The two extras are BOTH 8ohm speakers, as well as the speaker in my BDRI (Tone Tubby Alnico). I quickly looked at the owners manual to see what I could find out about the external speaker jack. All it said was that to use the external jack, the MAIN speaker jack must always be plugged in as well. SO, my questions are...

Could I just hook up the two 12 inch speakers into the cab and use them simultaneously with the 12 inch speaker that is in the amp itself? Are there any wattage, overload, or impedance risks?

I've searched multiple sites and forums on the web, but there seems to be so much varying replies and opinions. So much so, it's pretty confusing, so I decided to ask you all here at the actual FENDER forum! I hope someone can set me straight, I'd appreciate it!



I've read this plus Retro and Bluesky's responses.
SpACEdDeadhead, are you wanting to use just the external speaker?
or what would be all three? ie the internal plus the external??
It looks like you're saying you want to go both ways.

IF you wanted to just go with the external 2x12, you could probably unplug the current main speaker, then, plug 1 speaker into that same main speaker jack and 1 speaker into the external jack.
ie two chords between the BDRI cab and external cab. One cord per speaker.

I know I've plugged my BDRI into a 200w 8 ohm bass cab using that external jack. Didn't have any problems. That can be varified with the fact that Fender makes a 1x12 8 ohm external cab with the Hot Rod Series, which includes the BDRI, in mind.
See specs
http://www.fender.com/products/search.p ... 2231010700
As for that primary internal speaker....
It's wise to leave a speaker with 8 ohm impedance plugged into that primary jack and you may want to mark that same jack so you don't make the mistake of plugging into the external cab. In short, if I am reading that manual right, there should always be a 8 ohm loaded plug in that internal speaker jack.

Thought I would share this link if it's of any help.
http://www.colomar.com/Shavano/2x12wiring.html


If you plug an open circuit phone jack into the internal speaker connector, you can plug an external speaker speaker wired for 4 ohms into the extension speaker jack. It shows that in both the BDRI owner's manual and service manual.

The available options in order of preferance are:

1. 8 ohm internal speaker, no external speaker.
2. 8 ohm internal speaker, 8 ohm external speaker
3. No internal speaker (Open circuit phone plug MUST be inserted in the internal speaker jack), 4 ohm external speaker.
4. 8 ohm internal speaker, 16 ohm external speaker.

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Post subject: Re: Blues Deluxe RI + 2x12 extension cab
Posted: Tue Nov 02, 2010 11:22 am
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Joined: Fri Jun 11, 2010 12:33 am
Posts: 650
bluesky636 wrote:
Twinhit wrote:
SpACEdDeadhead wrote:
Hey everyone,

I'm "new" to the board, but have been reading threads and gaining much information, for quite sometime...prior to actually registering. Anyway, I've been looking at buying a custom made 2x12 cab, as I have two extra 12 inch speakers sitting in the closet. The two extras are BOTH 8ohm speakers, as well as the speaker in my BDRI (Tone Tubby Alnico). I quickly looked at the owners manual to see what I could find out about the external speaker jack. All it said was that to use the external jack, the MAIN speaker jack must always be plugged in as well. SO, my questions are...

Could I just hook up the two 12 inch speakers into the cab and use them simultaneously with the 12 inch speaker that is in the amp itself? Are there any wattage, overload, or impedance risks?

I've searched multiple sites and forums on the web, but there seems to be so much varying replies and opinions. So much so, it's pretty confusing, so I decided to ask you all here at the actual FENDER forum! I hope someone can set me straight, I'd appreciate it!



I've read this plus Retro and Bluesky's responses.
SpACEdDeadhead, are you wanting to use just the external speaker?
or what would be all three? ie the internal plus the external??
It looks like you're saying you want to go both ways.

IF you wanted to just go with the external 2x12, you could probably unplug the current main speaker, then, plug 1 speaker into that same main speaker jack and 1 speaker into the external jack.
ie two chords between the BDRI cab and external cab. One cord per speaker.

I know I've plugged my BDRI into a 200w 8 ohm bass cab using that external jack. Didn't have any problems. That can be varified with the fact that Fender makes a 1x12 8 ohm external cab with the Hot Rod Series, which includes the BDRI, in mind.
See specs
http://www.fender.com/products/search.p ... 2231010700
As for that primary internal speaker....
It's wise to leave a speaker with 8 ohm impedance plugged into that primary jack and you may want to mark that same jack so you don't make the mistake of plugging into the external cab. In short, if I am reading that manual right, there should always be a 8 ohm loaded plug in that internal speaker jack.

Thought I would share this link if it's of any help.
http://www.colomar.com/Shavano/2x12wiring.html


If you plug an open circuit phone jack into the internal speaker connector, you can plug an external speaker speaker wired for 4 ohms into the extension speaker jack. It shows that in both the BDRI owner's manual and service manual.

The available options in order of preferance are:

1. 8 ohm internal speaker, no external speaker.
2. 8 ohm internal speaker, 8 ohm external speaker
3. No internal speaker (Open circuit phone plug MUST be inserted in the internal speaker jack), 4 ohm external speaker.
4. 8 ohm internal speaker, 16 ohm external speaker.



Regarding option 3 "Open circuit phone plug". Is the plug below an
example of one of those Open circuit phone plugs?
Image


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Post subject: Re: Blues Deluxe RI + 2x12 extension cab
Posted: Tue Nov 02, 2010 1:50 pm
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Location: Natural Bridge, Virginia
Twinhit wrote:
Regarding option 3 "Open circuit phone plug". Is the plug below an
example of one of those Open circuit phone plugs?
Image


Never seen one of those before. The website provides minimal information.

An "open circuit phone plug" is just what it says: a phone plug with nothing connected to the two terminals. Hence it is "open circuit."

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Post subject: Re: Blues Deluxe RI + 2x12 extension cab
Posted: Tue Nov 02, 2010 1:54 pm
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Joined: Fri Jun 11, 2010 12:33 am
Posts: 650
bluesky636 wrote:
Twinhit wrote:
Regarding option 3 "Open circuit phone plug". Is the plug below an
example of one of those Open circuit phone plugs?
Image


Never seen one of those before. The website provides minimal information.

An open circuit plug is just what it says: a phone plug with nothing connected to the two terminals. Hence it is "open circuit."


I'm not sure I follow. IF the plug, itself is open, what is the point of an open circuit plug? Isn't that a waste of pocket change?

The plug above is a Fender product. I've seen it elsewhere.
Can you link to a pic of one of an "open circuit plug" that you ARE familiar with, for reference?


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Post subject: Re: Blues Deluxe RI + 2x12 extension cab
Posted: Tue Nov 02, 2010 2:02 pm
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Joined: Mon Apr 05, 2010 2:37 pm
Posts: 8708
Location: Natural Bridge, Virginia
Twinhit wrote:
bluesky636 wrote:
Twinhit wrote:
Regarding option 3 "Open circuit phone plug". Is the plug below an
example of one of those Open circuit phone plugs?
Image


Never seen one of those before. The website provides minimal information.

An open circuit plug is just what it says: a phone plug with nothing connected to the two terminals. Hence it is "open circuit."


I'm not sure I follow. IF the plug, itself is open, what is the point of an open circuit plug? Isn't that a waste of pocket change?

The plug above is a Fender product. I've seen it elsewhere.
Can you link to a pic of one of an "open circuit plug" that you ARE familiar with, for reference?


Look at the schematic of the speaker output jacks on a Blues Deluxe Reissue. Then you will understand.

http://www.blueguitar.org/new/schem/fen ... eissue.pdf

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Post subject: Re: Blues Deluxe RI + 2x12 extension cab
Posted: Tue Nov 02, 2010 2:24 pm
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Joined: Fri Jun 11, 2010 12:33 am
Posts: 650
bluesky636 wrote:
Twinhit wrote:
bluesky636 wrote:
Twinhit wrote:
Regarding option 3 "Open circuit phone plug". Is the plug below an
example of one of those Open circuit phone plugs?
Image


Never seen one of those before. The website provides minimal information.

An open circuit plug is just what it says: a phone plug with nothing connected to the two terminals. Hence it is "open circuit."


I'm not sure I follow. IF the plug, itself is open, what is the point of an open circuit plug? Isn't that a waste of pocket change?

The plug above is a Fender product. I've seen it elsewhere.
Can you link to a pic of one of an "open circuit plug" that you ARE familiar with, for reference?


Look at the schematic of the speaker output jacks on a Blues Deluxe Reissue. Then you will understand.

http://www.blueguitar.org/new/schem/fen ... eissue.pdf


Would love to but my reader is having problems with that specific file.
You're saying to plug an "open circuit plug" into that main/internal speaker jack for option 3. I was asking if the plug, pictured above, is the plug you need to plug into that main speaker jack to comply with option 3's rule. You said you didn't see one like that before, and give me schematics.
Don't you have a link to an "open circuit plug" that you are, indeed, familiar with?
If I am coming across as a smarta$$, it's not my intention. Just trying learn through the limitations of written communication.


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Post subject: Re: Blues Deluxe RI + 2x12 extension cab
Posted: Tue Nov 02, 2010 2:54 pm
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Joined: Mon Apr 05, 2010 2:37 pm
Posts: 8708
Location: Natural Bridge, Virginia
Twinhit wrote:
Would love to but my reader is having problems with that specific file.

You're saying to plug an "open circuit plug" into that main/internal speaker jack for option 3. I was asking if the plug, pictured above, is the plug you need to plug into that main speaker jack to comply with option 3's rule. You said you didn't see one like that before, and give me schematics.
Don't you have a link to an "open circuit plug" that you are, indeed, familiar with?

If I am coming across as a smarta$$, it's not my intention. Just trying learn through the limitations of written communication.


Not trying to be a smarta$$ either. I've already explained what an "open circuit phone plug is". When you buy a brand new phone plug at the store, there is nothing connected to the terminals. Hence it is "open circuit". What more can I say?

When you are able to view the schematic, you will see that the purpose of inserting an open circuit plug into the internal speaker jack is to break the ground circuit in the internal speaker jack. Otherwise, if you just left the jack open, with nothing in it, inserting a plug into the external speaker jack would short the 4-ohm transformer tap to ground. Not a good thing. It is easier to see in the schematic than to explain it in a post.

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Post subject: Re: Blues Deluxe RI + 2x12 extension cab
Posted: Tue Nov 02, 2010 4:45 pm
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Joined: Fri Jun 11, 2010 12:33 am
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bluesky636 wrote:
Twinhit wrote:
Would love to but my reader is having problems with that specific file.

You're saying to plug an "open circuit plug" into that main/internal speaker jack for option 3. I was asking if the plug, pictured above, is the plug you need to plug into that main speaker jack to comply with option 3's rule. You said you didn't see one like that before, and give me schematics.
Don't you have a link to an "open circuit plug" that you are, indeed, familiar with?

If I am coming across as a smarta$$, it's not my intention. Just trying learn through the limitations of written communication.


Not trying to be a smarta$$ either. I've already explained what an "open circuit phone plug is". When you buy a brand new phone plug at the store, there is nothing connected to the terminals. Hence it is "open circuit". What more can I say?

When you are able to view the schematic, you will see that the purpose of inserting an open circuit plug into the internal speaker jack is to break the ground circuit in the internal speaker jack. Otherwise, if you just left the jack open, with nothing in it, inserting a plug into the external speaker jack would short the 4-ohm transformer tap to ground. Not a good thing. It is easier to see in the schematic than to explain it in a post.


Ok, that is starting to make sense to me, now. You can just buy a speaker cable "plug" and plug the bare plug in and it will do the job as an "open circuit plug" breaking the ground.

If I got that right, thanks for trying to explain it.
Sure don't understand why that file doesn't work for me. I think I tried looking at it before but for some reason my acrobat isn't doing it.


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Post subject: Re: Blues Deluxe RI + 2x12 extension cab
Posted: Tue Nov 02, 2010 6:41 pm
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Joined: Mon Apr 05, 2010 2:37 pm
Posts: 8708
Location: Natural Bridge, Virginia
Twinhit wrote:
Ok, that is starting to make sense to me, now. You can just buy a speaker cable "plug" and plug the bare plug in and it will do the job as an "open circuit plug" breaking the ground.

If I got that right, thanks for trying to explain it.
Sure don't understand why that file doesn't work for me. I think I tried looking at it before but for some reason my acrobat isn't doing it.


You got it right. :D

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Posted: Tue Nov 09, 2010 3:23 pm
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Yes Twinhit, I'm looking to use all three at once - internal + 2 external. The cab arrived yesterday and I loaded the speakers into it. I've got an Eminence Texas Heat on the top and a really nice Fender (stock from my BDRI, also made by Eminence) on the bottom. They're both 8ohm speakers. The cab came pre-wired with a switchcraft 1/4 inch plug in the back. There is also wiring and the connectors to wire it in series or parallel.

Which way should I wire them? Series or Parallel? I'm assuming parallel, just have never worked with an external cab before.


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