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Post subject: hotrod deville, can i take 4X10s and replace with 2-12"
Posted: Mon Nov 01, 2010 7:04 pm
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I have a 4X10 Hotrod Deville...can i take the 4, 30watt speakers out and put in 2- 12" celestion vintage 30s??? they are much larger obviously. Will the new speaker magnets interfere with the transformer on the circuit board that it is now reaaaallly close to???

thanks,
Mike


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Posted: Mon Nov 01, 2010 7:53 pm
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You'll need a new speaker baffle. As long as you match the output impedance and they fit, it's all good.

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Posted: Mon Nov 01, 2010 8:13 pm
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63supro wrote:
You'll need a new speaker baffle. As long as you match the output impedance and they fit, it's all good.


+1

You'll need to arrange the speakers in a staggered array to fit them within the cabinet and the speakers themselves need to be 16 ohms each and wired in parallel.

A pair of V30's should be a significant sonic improvement.

HTH

Arjay

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Posted: Tue Nov 02, 2010 5:15 am
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Instead of chopping up your amp why not get a 2x12 Extension cab with the speakers you want in them?

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Posted: Tue Nov 02, 2010 1:27 pm
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Big The Cat wrote:
Instead of chopping up your amp why not get a 2x12 Extension cab with the speakers you want in them?


The Deville is a pretty large amp on its own. I know I wouldn't like to carry a DeVille and a 2x12 cab. I need a truss just thinking about it. :shock:

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Post subject: Re: hotrod deville, can i take 4X10s and replace with 2-12&q
Posted: Tue Nov 02, 2010 1:57 pm
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mike8610 wrote:
I have a 4X10 Hotrod Deville...can i take the 4, 30watt speakers out and put in 2- 12" celestion vintage 30s??? they are much larger obviously. Will the new speaker magnets interfere with the transformer on the circuit board that it is now reaaaallly close to???

thanks,
Mike


Waste of time.

The area of a circle = 3.14 x the radius squared

Four 10" speakers = 315 square inches of radiating area

Two 12" speakers = 226 square inches of radiating area

Given equal efficiencies, four 10" speakers can potentially play louder and go deeper than two 12" speakers.

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Post subject: Re: hotrod deville, can i take 4X10s and replace with 2-12&a
Posted: Tue Nov 02, 2010 2:24 pm
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bluesky636 wrote:
Given equal efficiencies, four 10" speakers can potentially play louder and go deeper than two 12" speakers.


Theoretically and esoterically, that's true.

But which would you rather play......

A quartet of OEM pie plates or a pair of V30s?

It's a no-brainer for me but YMMV.

Arjay

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Post subject: Re: hotrod deville, can i take 4X10s and replace with 2-12&a
Posted: Tue Nov 02, 2010 2:32 pm
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bluesky636 wrote:
mike8610 wrote:
I have a 4X10 Hotrod Deville...can i take the 4, 30watt speakers out and put in 2- 12" celestion vintage 30s??? they are much larger obviously. Will the new speaker magnets interfere with the transformer on the circuit board that it is now reaaaallly close to???

thanks,
Mike


Waste of time.

The area of a circle = 3.14 x the radius squared

Four 10" speakers = 315 square inches of radiating area

Two 12" speakers = 226 square inches of radiating area

Given equal efficiencies, four 10" speakers can potentially play louder and go deeper than two 12" speakers.


Well, obviously 4x10s will yield a greater radiating area than a 2x12 even a 3x12.

This brings up another question though.
would a 12" speaker have a greater reciprical cone motion than a 10"


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Post subject: Re: hotrod deville, can i take 4X10s and replace with 2-12&a
Posted: Tue Nov 02, 2010 2:40 pm
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Retroverbial wrote:
bluesky636 wrote:
Given equal efficiencies, four 10" speakers can potentially play louder and go deeper than two 12" speakers.


Theoretically and esoterically, that's true.

But which would you rather play......

A quartet of OEM pie plates or a pair of V30s?

It's a no-brainer for me but YMMV.

Arjay


Who said anything about keeping the 4 stock 10" speakers? :wink:

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Post subject: Re: hotrod deville, can i take 4X10s and replace with 2-12&a
Posted: Tue Nov 02, 2010 2:43 pm
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Twinhit wrote:
bluesky636 wrote:
mike8610 wrote:
I have a 4X10 Hotrod Deville...can i take the 4, 30watt speakers out and put in 2- 12" celestion vintage 30s??? they are much larger obviously. Will the new speaker magnets interfere with the transformer on the circuit board that it is now reaaaallly close to???

thanks,
Mike


Waste of time.

The area of a circle = 3.14 x the radius squared

Four 10" speakers = 315 square inches of radiating area

Two 12" speakers = 226 square inches of radiating area

Given equal efficiencies, four 10" speakers can potentially play louder and go deeper than two 12" speakers.


Well, obviously 4x10s will yield a greater radiating area than a 2x12 even a 3x12.

This brings up another question though.
would a 12" speaker have a greater reciprical cone motion than a 10"


If you are referring to cone excursion (in and out movement), there is nothing that says a 12" speaker has more or less excursion than a 10" speaker. Its all part of the design.

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Post subject: Re: hotrod deville, can i take 4X10s and replace with 2-12&a
Posted: Tue Nov 02, 2010 2:53 pm
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bluesky636 wrote:
Who said anything about keeping the 4 stock 10" speakers? :wink:


The gentleman who posited the original question asked about replacing the stock speaker complement with a pair of 12's and specifically mentioned a pair of V30's.

Perhaps four 10's just aren't his cup of tea.

I'm with you though -- a change from the OEM ceramic Emi's to something like a quartet of Weber 10A125's would probably be preferable to radical baffle surgery.

Arjay

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Post subject: Re: hotrod deville, can i take 4X10s and replace with 2-12&a
Posted: Tue Nov 02, 2010 3:00 pm
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Retroverbial wrote:
I'm with you though -- a change from the OEM ceramic Emi's to something like a quartet of Weber 10A125's would probably be preferable to radical baffle surgery.

Arjay


Precisely my point. Given a 10" speaker of equal sound quality, efficiency, etc. to a 12" speaker, four 10" speakers have greater potential for higher sound output and deeper bass than two 12" speakers.

It would probably be cheaper and less work to sell the two V30s and buy four Webers.

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Post subject: Re: hotrod deville, can i take 4X10s and replace with 2-12&a
Posted: Tue Nov 02, 2010 3:01 pm
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Retroverbial wrote:
bluesky636 wrote:
Given equal efficiencies, four 10" speakers can potentially play louder and go deeper than two 12" speakers.


Theoretically and esoterically, that's true.

But which would you rather play......

A quartet of OEM pie plates or a pair of V30s?

It's a no-brainer for me but YMMV.

Arjay


+1 Some things work better on paper, some work better on the ears. V30's are pretty nice speakers. The stock speakers in those thing were horrible. Or you can sell the DeVille 410 for a 212 and put V30's in that.

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Post subject: Re: hotrod deville, can i take 4X10s and replace with 2-12&a
Posted: Tue Nov 02, 2010 4:34 pm
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bluesky636 wrote:
Twinhit wrote:
bluesky636 wrote:
mike8610 wrote:
I have a 4X10 Hotrod Deville...can i take the 4, 30watt speakers out and put in 2- 12" celestion vintage 30s??? they are much larger obviously. Will the new speaker magnets interfere with the transformer on the circuit board that it is now reaaaallly close to???

thanks,
Mike


Waste of time.

The area of a circle = 3.14 x the radius squared

Four 10" speakers = 315 square inches of radiating area

Two 12" speakers = 226 square inches of radiating area

Given equal efficiencies, four 10" speakers can potentially play louder and go deeper than two 12" speakers.


Well, obviously 4x10s will yield a greater radiating area than a 2x12 even a 3x12.

This brings up another question though.
would a 12" speaker have a greater reciprical cone motion than a 10"


If you are referring to cone excursion (in and out movement), there is nothing that says a 12" speaker has more or less excursion than a 10" speaker. Its all part of the design.


AND......

bluesky636 wrote:
Retroverbial wrote:
I'm with you though -- a change from the OEM ceramic Emi's to something like a quartet of Weber 10A125's would probably be preferable to radical baffle surgery.

Arjay


Precisely my point. Given a 10" speaker of equal sound quality, efficiency, etc. to a 12" speaker, four 10" speakers have greater potential for higher sound output and deeper bass than two 12" speakers.

It would probably be cheaper and less work to sell the two V30s and buy four Webers.


Interesting two points.
Yes, I was referring to "cone excursion". Didn't know what to call it so... "reciprical" was a shot in the dark.
For some unknown reason, I visualized a larger diameter speaker having more cone excursion than a smaller one. I can only assume that a "muddy" sounding speaker might have more (uncontrolled?) excursion than a tight (controlled) "defined" sounding speaker.
Sure wish there was a glossary of descriptive terms in front of me.
For example the new Gold speaker I just put in my BDRI sounds more defined than the year old OEM speaker which sounds somewhat muddy particularly in the low to low-mid range. I don't know, it seems that the speaker had lost the punch it had when new. Nothing wrong with that OEM speaker if it yields a mellower tone when mellower tone is desired.
I am trying to figure out how to describe the tone of the Gold v. OEM Fender SD Emi.


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Post subject: Re: hotrod deville, can i take 4X10s and replace with 2-12&a
Posted: Tue Nov 02, 2010 4:37 pm
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63supro wrote:
Retroverbial wrote:
bluesky636 wrote:
Given equal efficiencies, four 10" speakers can potentially play louder and go deeper than two 12" speakers.


Theoretically and esoterically, that's true.

But which would you rather play......

A quartet of OEM pie plates or a pair of V30s?

It's a no-brainer for me but YMMV.

Arjay


+1 Some things work better on paper, some work better on the ears. V30's are pretty nice speakers. The stock speakers in those thing were horrible. Or you can sell the DeVille 410 for a 212 and put V30's in that.


Or as Arjay suggested above and I agree, put 10" Webers in the stock holes and sell the V30s (assuming the OP already has them).

Unless you are a skilled wood worker, or know someone who is, replacing a 4x10 baffle with a 2x12 baffle can be pretty expensive. I have seen people replace the 1x12 speaker and baffle in the BDRI with a 2x10 baffle. Looks neat, sounds good too. I got several quotes to make a baffle for me and the price was outrageous.

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