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Post subject: GIGGING MUSICIANS~TO MIC OR NOT TO MIC
Posted: Mon Nov 01, 2010 3:02 pm
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Hey all,

After staying very busy performing solo acoustic gigs for the past 4 years, I'm starting a 3pc version of what I'm already doing.

I mostly perform in small to medium venues (clubs/bars)... Usually ranging in crowd size anywhere from 40 to 100 people...

I have a Peavey Classic 50~Love it. Just wondering, how many of you gigging musicians are micing your amps?

I've seen local bands around here with 100w Marshall Half Stacks mic'd into a PA in clubs smaller than my house... Doesn't make any sense to me at all. Stacks IMO should be used by musicians playing in stadiums & arenas... Not small clubs. That's another post though.

I realize that micing everything helps with overall sound coverage in most venues, but to me, unless your playing a venue that holds 250+ people I don't see any need to mic the entire band.

Again, I'm going bare bones. 3pc blues/classic rock band.

Why not crank a 20w or turn a 50w amp halfway up to its sweet spot with no PA?

I've mic'd my Classic 50 before, but by doing that, I'm forced to keep the amp volume fairly low. To me it doesn't sound as good being restricted.

Input please. Does anyone else think this way?: Old school for small clubs, mic only the vocals & balance the guitar, bass & drums.


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Posted: Mon Nov 01, 2010 4:11 pm
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Ok, its an age old argument this.

Let me say this, its always better to have your amp mic'd because you can always raise the volume of cracked amp, but you can NOT lower the volume of one.

However, if you do want an excuse to buy a new amp, why not but something with a built in power soak like you'll have seen MESA amps that hav the switches that go from 100 to 50 to 25 watts. This will give you the option of micing your amp BUT if on the off chance that the pa of the place is small and can only handle vocals or just sucks you can run it without a mic.

However, from the amp you've got, it should give a good sound at most volumes. (unless you have a gig in someone's bedroom =P)

I gig with a fender twin which is UNHOLY loud and i will mic it but i will run it quite low just because i know its better to hear the balance and suffer a little tone than drown everyone out. (that and i love how twins sound!)

Happy gigging

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Posted: Mon Nov 01, 2010 4:32 pm
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In a small venue I usually don't bother. If you're playing with other professionals who know how to play dynamically I see no reason for it. The guys I perform with are great. I use a 20 watt Egnater Rebel and have no problem at all getting the tone I want. On bigger real stages, I'll use two 112 cabs and let the sound man do his thing. But for bars and small clubs, nah.

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Posted: Mon Nov 01, 2010 5:02 pm
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We mic everything.

We don't push our gear too hard and having everything running through the PA permits setting our overall house volume to a comfortable level to keep both the "boss" and the patrons happy.

I may be playing a Twin Reverb with a Dual Showman extension cab on stage but I'm usually not playing it loud enough to cause nosebleeds or busted eardrums. It just looks that way.

Arjay

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Posted: Mon Nov 01, 2010 5:32 pm
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I am a firm believer of mic all your stuff. My reason is as a former touring musician and engineer it keeps the stage level much lower and my ears don't ring at all and i tend to use no more than a 15 watt amp. I am pretty simple a Fender combo my guitar and go..no pedal cabinets and all that other stuff..:)
ABS :D


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Posted: Mon Nov 01, 2010 7:13 pm
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I am a big fan of mics. I gig in several bands, over 100 gigs a year. When we dont mic, we tend to have to have such a loud stage volume so others can hear further away. If you are miked, you can keep your stage volume much much lower and get a good guitar mix in your monitors and let the sound guy mix through the PA. You will hear much better and you wont have your ears ringing for days. A good miked show is awesome because you get a little of your sound behind you, sound in your monitor, and sound through the PA...it's great to feel and hear your mix on stage from all directions when done properly


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Posted: Mon Nov 01, 2010 7:49 pm
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Larger venues are one thing, but some of the local places around me barely have a stage. You don't even have room to plant a monitor. I do agree with stage volume, but you need a stage in the first place. When we used to play festivals and large clubs in Phila. Pa, everything was mic'd and the stage volume was pretty low. You just need to evaluate each situation. The thing is, if you piss off the patrons and owner, you won't be back. I've been to small places where everything's mic'd but the sound coming through the PA is deafening.

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Posted: Mon Nov 01, 2010 8:23 pm
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63supro wrote:
Larger venues are one thing, but some of the local places around me barely have a stage. You don't even have room to plant a monitor. I do agree with stage volume, but you need a stage in the first place.


+1

Some of our smaller venues are outdoor parties at private homes, small rec centers, and the like (which is one reason why I built some smaller amps for these more intimate gigs). We usually still mic our amps but eschew any augmentation for the drums in those instances.

Arjay

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Posted: Mon Nov 01, 2010 9:00 pm
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63supro wrote:
Larger venues are one thing, but some of the local places around me barely have a stage. You don't even have room to plant a monitor. I do agree with stage volume, but you need a stage in the first place. When we used to play festivals and large clubs in Phila. Pa, everything was mic'd and the stage volume was pretty low. You just need to evaluate each situation. The thing is, if you piss off the patrons and owner, you won't be back. I've been to small places where everything's mic'd but the sound coming through the PA is deafening.


I'm with you on that! I agree with the stage volume thing too (definitely)... I've also been to gigs where a band had EVERTHING mic'd & the club was too small for it. It's overkill IMO. Seems like a lot of stuff to drag out & use in a venue that doesn't call for it.

Pretty much everyone here has made good points. I see advantages to both methods in different venues.

I think if you're working with good musicians, who are able to understand that you're playing in a club & not a stadium, going unmic'd can work well in small venues.

On the flip side, I think the sound spread/coverage with a PA system for the amps is a definite advantage at gigs where the venue is large enough to need it.

I average between 80 to 100 solo acoustic gigs a year. That's an easy operation for me, I plug my acoustic directly into the board & bang out the gigs.

I'm planning to start gigging once or twice a month with a 3 pc electric version of what I do. If I can keep costs down, (no soundman, no bigger PA), I'll be willing to do even more than a couple a month. So, I'm hoping that just mic'ing up the vocals will work well in some of the small clubs around here.

I know my Classic 50 & Strat will be heard without a mic.


Last edited by JPH74 on Mon Nov 01, 2010 9:38 pm, edited 2 times in total.

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Posted: Mon Nov 01, 2010 9:28 pm
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Yeah, I'm on the same page as Supro(except I don't gig anymore). Most times the place was small and the biggest problem was getting decent power. In some of the clubs we did mic up, but that was more of a union situation(we had to have union cards). But keeping the stage level down is great, if you can do it. Otherwise we only mic'd up for festivals. Yeah crammin' the amp under the pinball machine, those were the days ! Actually, the keys were always mic'd, which helped me, as rhythm player to stay out of his way and weave with the organ. IMO If the folks are dancin' and diggin' it, it doesn't get any better ! Art

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Posted: Tue Nov 02, 2010 12:49 am
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aclempoppi wrote:
Yeah crammin' the amp under the pinball machine, those were the days !


LMAO

And we wondered back then where all the hissing and buzzing was coming from!

:mrgreen:

You an AFM member, Art?

Arjay

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Posted: Tue Nov 02, 2010 5:26 am
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63supro wrote:
In a small venue I usually don't bother. If you're playing with other professionals who know how to play dynamically I see no reason for it. The guys I perform with are great. I use a 20 watt Egnater Rebel and have no problem at all getting the tone I want. On bigger real stages, I'll use two 112 cabs and let the sound man do his thing. But for bars and small clubs, nah.
You hit on something that's a key part of the puzzle,at least to me...that is if you're playing with other professionals who can play dynamically and can keep the volume at the level it needs to be.
95% of the time it's everyone cranking up to hear themselves until it's a huge roar.
Halloween night I could hear a band in a park a 1/2 mile from my house and whoever was running the PA was cranking the volume and lowering it to the extreme....crazy!


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Posted: Tue Nov 02, 2010 6:27 pm
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63supro wrote:
Larger venues are one thing, but some of the local places around me barely have a stage. You don't even have room to plant a monitor. I do agree with stage volume, but you need a stage in the first place. When we used to play festivals and large clubs in Phila. Pa, everything was mic'd and the stage volume was pretty low. You just need to evaluate each situation. The thing is, if you piss off the patrons and owner, you won't be back. I've been to small places where everything's mic'd but the sound coming through the PA is deafening.


I agree with you...that is why as I have aged a little..LOL I use 15 watt amps....for times when I don't have much of a stage/small club and I don't need to make anyone's (especially mine) bleed..:)
ABS :D


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Posted: Tue Nov 02, 2010 6:43 pm
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I think it's a matter of common sense,not a set in stone rule whether to mic or not.Does it need it,then mic it,if not don't.It makes no sense to turn your amp down to "suck" volume just for the sake of micing it in a room that clearly doesn't need it.That's like taking 1 step forward to take 2 steps back,now at best you just have well mixed $@!&#* sound.Of course,I mean this within reason & it depends what amp your using as well.If getting a good tone is just plain too loud you may need an attenuator.There are also plexiglass amp shields you can buy or make so your amp isn't as directional.


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Posted: Tue Nov 02, 2010 9:10 pm
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When we gigged in medium sized clubs of about 100 people I was the only one in the band who wasn't miked but at the time I was using a 135W Peavey Deuce so it cut through the mix very well.If I were using anything 60W or less I'd have it miked in a medium venue to aid the sound dispersion.You don't have to have the channel your amp mic is going through very loud just turned up enough to enhance what's coming through your amp.

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