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Posted: Sat Oct 30, 2010 12:04 pm
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Twinhit wrote:
63supro wrote:
Twinhit,

I already have a PCB amp built the way I like it. Egnater did it. Thick double sided board with plated through holes, no ribbon connectors, heat-sinks on all critical heat sensitive components, Birch ply cabs and yes the list goes on and on. I also have a 1979 cheap-$@! Guild 4 porch weasel that's built better than my HRDlx was.

Arjay, my patience ran out too. That's why I can now play my guitar instead of humping a HRDlx back and forth to a tech for warranty work. I sold it and bought an Egnater. :D


Your love affair with the HRD is legendary, supro. I will not dispute that.
However, other people have different tastes and like their HRD as much you like your Egnater and I won't dispute that either.

Jody likes his amps but would like to see them come in a head version. Fender don't make 'em and I am just throwing ideas out there. Nothing more.


There are basically three reasons people but a HRD series amp. First is price. Second is volume. They think these amps are really loud but they are actually running full tilt by the time they hit 4 on the volume knob thanks to an linear taper pot. It's all an illusion of power. Third, they think they sound great usually because they never tried a better amp because better amps cost more. Nothing wrong with that either. I've owned tons of Fender and other amps in my 40+ years as a musician and from playing professionally for over 25 of them. Doesn't mean anything except that myself and Arjay and a few others here too have a pretty decent point of reference as to what is good and reliable. The difference between myself and Arjay is Arjay keeps an amazingly large stable of beautiful vintage amps. I sold mine. Not because I didn't love them but because I didn't use them as much as I used to.

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Posted: Sat Oct 30, 2010 8:42 pm
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[/quote]

There are basically three reasons people but a HRD series amp. First is price. Second is volume. They think these amps are really loud but they are actually running full tilt by the time they hit 4 on the volume knob thanks to an linear taper pot. It's all an illusion of power. Third, they think they sound great usually because they never tried a better amp because better amps cost more. Nothing wrong with that either. I've owned tons of Fender and other amps in my 40+ years as a musician and from playing professionally for over 25 of them. Doesn't mean anything except that myself and Arjay and a few others here too have a pretty decent point of reference as to what is good and reliable. The difference between myself and Arjay is Arjay keeps an amazingly large stable of beautiful vintage amps. I sold mine. Not because I didn't love them but because I didn't use them as much as I used to.[/quote]


+1 Well said. :D


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Posted: Sun Oct 31, 2010 4:38 am
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Twinhit wrote:
Ok, so Fender doesn't make a head.


So did the supersonic head just get ignored here or is there something drastically wrong with it that rockstars dont notice and the ordinary man just doesn't like?

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Posted: Sun Oct 31, 2010 7:04 am
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I have an HRD III and could have sprung for a more expensive amp but did not because 1. I wanted a Fender amp, 2. I need an effects loop, 3. The HRD sounds great to my ears and I have played loads of way more expensive and supposedly better amps. More $$$ does not automatically mean better tone - same with guitars, same with amps. I just paired an Avatar cab loaded with a Vintage 30 as an extension to my HRD and it sounds very nice.


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Posted: Sun Oct 31, 2010 10:34 am
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Big The Cat wrote:
Twinhit wrote:
Ok, so Fender doesn't make a head.


So did the supersonic head just get ignored here or is there something drastically wrong with it that rockstars dont notice and the ordinary man just doesn't like?


BTC,
That's a reference to the HRD series and no other.


Last edited by Twinhit on Sun Oct 31, 2010 10:37 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Posted: Sun Oct 31, 2010 11:45 am
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Unadan wrote:
I have an HRD III and could have sprung for a more expensive amp but did not because 1. I wanted a Fender amp, 2. I need an effects loop, 3. The HRD sounds great to my ears and I have played loads of way more expensive and supposedly better amps. More $$$ does not automatically mean better tone - same with guitars, same with amps. I just paired an Avatar cab loaded with a Vintage 30 as an extension to my HRD and it sounds very nice.


Better build quality, better components and better design DO make for a better sounding amp. And yes, you do pay more for a quality, better sounding product. YMMV and I see it has. Good luck with the amp. Just because it says"Fender" on the name plate doesn't automatically make it a great amp. The newer Fender amps ( HRD and VM series) to my ears anyway leave an awful lot to be desired compared to vintage and reissue series. Just my opinion so once again, flame suit on!

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Posted: Sun Oct 31, 2010 12:43 pm
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I looked at a 65 Reissue Deluxe Reverb - great clean but not so great overdriven in my opinion - that amp is also PCB based so I do not see it as worlds apart from the HRD. In my particular situation I'm not much of a reverb or trem fan so the DRRI and its main strengths are not suited to my playing style. I also like to use lots of delay modulation effects so a loop is a must (pretty much ruling out all of the vintage reissues - none have loops). All I was saying is you can pay a boatload more and not necessarily do much better for tone (again in my opinion of course).


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Posted: Sun Oct 31, 2010 2:28 pm
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There now, you see?!?
Everyone has a different need and desire. Right now, unidan likes his HRDIII. Some day he may come across THE amp that serves his needs.
To each his own.
I am glad there is variety.
I like my Blues Deluxe and I like playing my classical through gobs of EQ and multiple mikes. Does that mean my equipment is bad or substandard? NO! It means I can find the refined tone that me, myself and I like.

The same can be said about microphones. Sure, I'd love to have a stable of vintage Neumann U47s, U67, and U87s, EV RE20s, AKG C414B and of course, Shure SM57's and SM58s for starters. Add to that list some vintage RCA mics would be nice too.
Fairchild 670 compressor, a top end Solid State Logic desk, Studer 810 analog tape recorder, a Neumann VMS66 vinyl record cutting lathe yadayadayada..... and blah blah blah and yeah yeah yeah......

But..... we ain't got the bucks for those toys.
Instead, we choose to enjoy what we do have, make the best of it and learn as we go. I should also point out that any vintage amp that has been modified in any way is no longer original. so.... whatever amp has had their original tubes replaced, speaker reconed, caps replaced are not going to sound like they did when new. Also, the materials used in the early amps come as a result of high quality surplus material that was available as a result of and following WW2. Company profits aside, other restrictions such as epa regulations have critically squeezed the snot out of old school quality (for just about anything now made).
With those things, that I cannot control, in mind, I choose to work with what I have and improve where I can. I don't think anyone else is any different.

BTW,
To compare one amp from one vintage to another is like comparing apples to oranges. Some people like one and not the other, some people like both!
This is the "Modern Amplifiers (1985-Current) forum. Modern amps apply, vintage do not. There is a nice forum for vintage amps.
It's great that people can enjoy whatever amp from whatever vintage they may be.


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Posted: Sun Oct 31, 2010 3:22 pm
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The HRD series reliability track record makes it substandard. There are many lower priced well designed, great sounding and reliable amps on the market. Also not all PCB's are created equal which was a major issue with the HRDlx.
The fizz and more fizz drive channels on my HRDlx drove me to use pedals. An effects loop is also not a necessity to run modulation effects. Many professional people including myself ran them for decades without one.

It boils down to whatever floats yer boat and how badly you rely on your equipment. My HRDlx failed on 3 different major gigs with three different entirely non tube related issues. Once it let the magic smoke out with failed power supply caps. Unacceptable in my book for a brand new amp.

So I had to drag out my Twin as my backup. I got the HRDlx in the first place so I could stop breaking my stones humping my Twin in and out of my car.

If you have good luck with piece of gear and like it, that's all that counts.

The reissues count in the modern forum. The DRRI's are current production amps as are all the reissues. They are not vintage but vintage circuits. The HRD amps are supposedly very loosely based on vintage circuits. The price difference between a reissue and a HRD series amp isn't that huge and on the used market a lightly used DRRI with the balance of the warranty can be had for about the same or less than a HRDlx.

The EPA didn't squeeze the snot out of old school quality, corporate greed did. You can still get high quality components for reasonable prices. The HRDlx III is a fine example of it. The made the board slightly better and made a couple of other minor changes though none that address the heat related or tube mounting issues without lacking the price through the roof.

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Posted: Sun Oct 31, 2010 5:05 pm
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I believe many of the issues you've raised about the HRD have been fixed or at least improved upon with version 3 of this amp - better drive tones for sure, can't comment on the reliability other than I've had no problems (knock on wood) since getting mine. As far as the DRRI goes - I tried one for an extended period a few weeks ago and thought it was nice but that its clean non-trem, non-reverb, tone was about the same as the HRD (classic Fender cleans).

I like to overdrive the amp so I tend to want, especially delay, in the loop - to my ears overdriven delayed tone sounds much better this way. Is it a necessity? - no - but I like it.

I've seen no evidence that the PCB is "better" on the DRRI vs. the HRD. In the end I'm only saying the HRD III is better FOR ME vs. a DRRI (its closest Fender competitor). Plus if I'm going DRRI I'm going for an old school handwired one which will retain its value much better than its PCB counterpart.


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Posted: Sun Oct 31, 2010 5:26 pm
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Supro, I like the old amps as much as you and arjay.
I am just saying that while I like the old stuff, I recognise they come at a premium. To mass produce using old stock would get quite expensive.
I think Fender tries to find middle ground with what's available on hand.

Jody and unidan both seem to like their amps. Obviously, unidan's HRD is new and has a 5 year factory warranty. any problems it's putt putt to the shop.

Again, comparing vintage amps with these HR series amps is like comparing apples to oranges.
As far as the thermal problems go with the HRDIII, why not write fender and tell em what you think about their HRD and what you think they should do to fix the thermal issues. Maybe oughta post it in the lounge or something.

IMHO, adding a vent to the upper area of back amp access panel should be an improvement in thermal temp exaustion and moving the tubes outboard of the amp enclosure should dramatically reduce ambient operating thermal temp. within the amp enclosure.


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Posted: Sun Oct 31, 2010 5:46 pm
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63supro wrote:
Unadan wrote:
I have an HRD III and could have sprung for a more expensive amp but did not because 1. I wanted a Fender amp, 2. I need an effects loop, 3. The HRD sounds great to my ears and I have played loads of way more expensive and supposedly better amps. More $$$ does not automatically mean better tone - same with guitars, same with amps. I just paired an Avatar cab loaded with a Vintage 30 as an extension to my HRD and it sounds very nice.


Better build quality, better components and better design DO make for a better sounding amp. And yes, you do pay more for a quality, better sounding product. YMMV and I see it has. Good luck with the amp. Just because it says"Fender" on the name plate doesn't automatically make it a great amp. The newer Fender amps ( HRD and VM series) to my ears anyway leave an awful lot to be desired compared to vintage and reissue series. Just my opinion so once again, flame suit on!


63,
The important thing here is you are clearly stating your experience and OPINION. If people have issues with your opinion because it differs from theirs oh well...as we have discussed in the past, I am a huge fan of the SCXD which you do not care for. I repect your opinion on the amp, but I have been able to get the tone I want from it. Again, I highly respect your opinion and experience so if you ask me...no flame suit required!!
ABS :D


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Posted: Sun Oct 31, 2010 5:48 pm
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Well I had a Blues Deluxe (from the 90s), I liked the clean on that amp and the headroom, but that's it.

I also had a 410 DeVille bought couple years ago. Extremely loud, nothing special, I still have no idea why I even bought it, but that's another story...

I also played a BJ for a while and gigged regularly with it.

I now have a DRRI. I wont go into reliability cause I haven't had it that long and it's been discussed plenty here... for my ears there's nothing sweeter than the sound coming out of the DRRI! I'm not a pedal guy, tube screamer is the only thing I use If I want a bit more drive, and it works great with my amp.

I don't need an "old" amp to make me happy, the reissue DR is very satisfying already :) but now that I've experienced vintage Fender amps, I'll admit it's even better than the reissue, for the tone I'm after of course.... YMMV.

I wouldn't even take in a HRD amp if it was given to me for free :D I got what I need and I know what my ears like.


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Posted: Sun Oct 31, 2010 6:17 pm
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I find it interesting that some players "wouldn't take an HRD" if it was given to them vs. other professional musicians, including notably Mark Knopfler, who regularly gig with Hot Rod Deluxe amps. To each his own I guess. I hear the same arguments over at TGP about those that "wouldn't get caught dead" using a Boss pedal on their board when numerous high quality musicians build them into their rigs regularly. There is no right answer. There is only what's right for you. :)


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Posted: Sun Oct 31, 2010 6:33 pm
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airbornestrat wrote:
63supro wrote:
Unadan wrote:
I have an HRD III and could have sprung for a more expensive amp but did not because 1. I wanted a Fender amp, 2. I need an effects loop, 3. The HRD sounds great to my ears and I have played loads of way more expensive and supposedly better amps. More $$$ does not automatically mean better tone - same with guitars, same with amps. I just paired an Avatar cab loaded with a Vintage 30 as an extension to my HRD and it sounds very nice.


Better build quality, better components and better design DO make for a better sounding amp. And yes, you do pay more for a quality, better sounding product. YMMV and I see it has. Good luck with the amp. Just because it says"Fender" on the name plate doesn't automatically make it a great amp. The newer Fender amps ( HRD and VM series) to my ears anyway leave an awful lot to be desired compared to vintage and reissue series. Just my opinion so once again, flame suit on!


63,
The important thing here is you are clearly stating your experience and OPINION. If people have issues with your opinion because it differs from theirs oh well...as we have discussed in the past, I am a huge fan of the SCXD which you do not care for. I repect your opinion on the amp, but I have been able to get the tone I want from it. Again, I highly respect your opinion and experience so if you ask me...no flame suit required!!
ABS :D


Flame suits don't do much for someone beggin to go through a wood chipper.


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