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Post subject: 22 watts versus 40 watts what's the Deal?
Posted: Fri Oct 15, 2010 3:11 pm
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Why is it when some one wants an amp that is loud enough to gig they say 22 watts is not much quieter than 40 watts and it's loud enough and when they want an amp that is not to loud for bedroom use they say 40 watts is to much?

There is an inconsistency in the argument. 40 watts and 22 watts are not that much different in reality. Leave it at that.


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Posted: Fri Oct 15, 2010 3:30 pm
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Contact a seer, you will have more answer than us 8) 8)

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Posted: Fri Oct 15, 2010 3:34 pm
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Tissan wrote:
Contact a seer, you will have more answer than us 8) 8)


LOL


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Post subject: Re: 22 watts versus 40 watts what's the Deal?
Posted: Fri Oct 15, 2010 3:37 pm
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FXA wrote:
Why is it when some one wants an amp that is loud enough to gig they say 22 watts is not much quieter than 40 watts and it's loud enough and when they want an amp that is not to loud for bedroom use they say 40 watts is to much?

There is an inconsistency in the argument. 40 watts and 22 watts are not that much different in reality. Leave it at that.


IMHO,
The both can be used for both applications. I play my 40w BDRI at 2-3
in the bedroom. Other's say it's loud enough for some gigs.
For me it's not an issue, but I too would be interested in all the opinions
others may have.


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Posted: Fri Oct 15, 2010 3:46 pm
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tissan maybe you can varify this, 22 watt is usualy 6v6 power tubes and 40watt is 6L6 power tubes witch gives more head room. i'm not sure. i don't own a 22 watt. my bdri is just right for me, but it can get loud.i play mine in the bedroom and my wife is the only one complaining.that an't a bad thing.


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Posted: Fri Oct 15, 2010 4:18 pm
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40 watts is not twice as loud as 22 watts. It takes a tenfold increase in wattage to make an amp sound twice as loud. A bandmate and myself did a little test and I have drowned out his 40 watt HRDlx amp with my 20 watt Egnater Rebel at a rehearsal. It was mostly I think because my Egnater runs a more efficient speaker. It sounded better too. :D

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Posted: Fri Oct 15, 2010 4:36 pm
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63supro wrote:
40 watts is not twice as loud as 22 watts. It takes a tenfold increase in wattage to make an amp sound twice as loud. A bandmate and myself did a little test and I have drowned out his 40 watt HRDlx amp with my 20 watt Egnater Rebel at a rehearsal. It was mostly I think because my Egnater runs a more efficient speaker. It sounded better too. :D


Supro,
If two amp were given the best quality components including comparable speaker efficiency and projection characteristics and the only difference
between the two were simply output wattage....
Would a 22w amp go into overdrive, distortion and speaker breakup
before a 40w at the same metered dB levels?
(Both through normal channel)

I am guessing that the 40w would be cleaner than the 22w.
If I am misunderstanding it, what would be the difference and why?


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Posted: Fri Oct 15, 2010 5:00 pm
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In a typical amp, 20 watts is plenty for most gigs. 40 watts is a tad better at higher volume because in general they don't distort as much at a given volume. That is to say, if you're looking for a clean sound, there will be less distortion in a 40 watt amp, in today's music since many guitarist don't play clean the same logic won't truly apply. The difference in over all volume is nil maybe 6db between 20 and 40 watts. Volume is not a measure of wattage. In fact I've known a few players to use 15 watt amps such as Blues Jr's as their regular Bar gig amp with no problem. Of course they are pushing those amps hard and they don't play clean at that volume. If you want to play clean at that volume you better get at least 60 watts or better yet 100 watts, like a Twin Reverb.


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Posted: Fri Oct 15, 2010 5:31 pm
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Twinhit wrote:
63supro wrote:
40 watts is not twice as loud as 22 watts. It takes a tenfold increase in wattage to make an amp sound twice as loud. A bandmate and myself did a little test and I have drowned out his 40 watt HRDlx amp with my 20 watt Egnater Rebel at a rehearsal. It was mostly I think because my Egnater runs a more efficient speaker. It sounded better too. :D


Supro,
If two amp were given the best quality components including comparable speaker efficiency and projection characteristics and the only difference
between the two were simply output wattage....
Would a 22w amp go into overdrive, distortion and speaker breakup
before a 40w at the same metered dB levels?
(Both through normal channel)

I am guessing that the 40w would be cleaner than the 22w.
If I am misunderstanding it, what would be the difference and why?


Just slightly cleaner. It would also depend on a lot of factors like the amp's design, bias, tubes etc. My 100 watt Twin would barely break up at 8 on the volume dial and it was painfully loud. There's not not a whole lot of difference between 20 and 40 watts. I can dial my Egnater Rebel down to 1 watt. It's still pretty loud, but the headroom is a bit less than 20 watts. It also changes depending on where I have the tube mix dial too. The 6V6 side is smoother and the EL84 side is more aggressive. When I use all 4 power tubes together, it changes again and I get a bit more headroom. I use all these factors to dial in my tone without pedals, then adjust my pedals the enhance my tone a little more. YMMV though because my definition of clean may be different than yours. It's really fascinating stuff.

You can get amazingly clean tones from 6v6 power tubes. Same with EL84's.

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Post subject:
Posted: Fri Oct 15, 2010 5:40 pm
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Johnny Z wrote:
In a typical amp, 20 watts is plenty for most gigs. 40 watts is a tad better at higher volume because in general they don't distort as much at a given volume. That is to say, if you're looking for a clean sound, there will be less distortion in a 40 watt amp, in today's music since many guitarist don't play clean the same logic won't truly apply. The difference in over all volume is nil maybe 6db between 20 and 40 watts. Volume is not a measure of wattage. In fact I've known a few players to use 15 watt amps such as Blues Jr's as their regular Bar gig amp with no problem. Of course they are pushing those amps hard and they don't play clean at that volume. If you want to play clean at that volume you better get at least 60 watts or better yet 100 watts, like a Twin Reverb.



Specifically:
Quote:
If you want to play clean at that volume you better get at least 60 watts or better yet 100 watts, like a Twin Reverb


My earlier suspicion:
"I am guessing that the 40w would be cleaner than the 22w."

Sounds like what you said echoes my suspicion.

IF the general consensus agrees, then, my choice of amp was a better choice, for ME as I want to be able to play cleaner at high volume and
and have the choice of mild amp based dirt to pedaldriven overdrives and distortion etc.
For ME, because of my hearing loss, I wanted to have tone control, clean and volume. For me, the blues deluxe delivers this package. IF I wish to get another tone I might look for another amp - which is great! I have many choices and so does everyone else.
That's cool.
8)


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Post subject:
Posted: Fri Oct 15, 2010 5:51 pm
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63supro wrote:
Twinhit wrote:
63supro wrote:
40 watts is not twice as loud as 22 watts. It takes a tenfold increase in wattage to make an amp sound twice as loud. A bandmate and myself did a little test and I have drowned out his 40 watt HRDlx amp with my 20 watt Egnater Rebel at a rehearsal. It was mostly I think because my Egnater runs a more efficient speaker. It sounded better too. :D


Supro,
If two amp were given the best quality components including comparable speaker efficiency and projection characteristics and the only difference
between the two were simply output wattage....
Would a 22w amp go into overdrive, distortion and speaker breakup
before a 40w at the same metered dB levels?
(Both through normal channel)

I am guessing that the 40w would be cleaner than the 22w.
If I am misunderstanding it, what would be the difference and why?


Just slightly cleaner. It would also depend on a lot of factors like the amp's design, bias, tubes etc. My 100 watt Twin would barely break up at 8 on the volume dial and it was painfully loud. There's not not a whole lot of difference between 20 and 40 watts. I can dial my Egnater Rebel down to 1 watt. It's still pretty loud, but the headroom is a bit less than 20 watts. It also changes depending on where I have the tube mix dial too. The 6V6 side is smoother and the EL84 side is more aggressive. When I use all 4 power tubes together, it changes again and I get a bit more headroom. I use all these factors to dial in my tone without pedals, then adjust my pedals the enhance my tone a little more. YMMV though because my definition of clean may be different than yours. It's really fascinating stuff.

You can get amazingly clean tones from 6v6 power tubes. Same with EL84's.


Thank you supro,
I sincerely appreciate the informative response.
Nothing worse than going down a long road with the wrong understanding of things from the get go.
I agree it IS fascinating stuff.


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Post subject:
Posted: Fri Oct 15, 2010 5:58 pm
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by the way, I've incidentally heard it said that Eric Clapton once said that he felt a 40w amp was the most he would need. Of course that's an informed player who knows what he wants and what is acceptable for him.

I think it's important for every player who is going to play through an amp to learn everything correctly he/she can about amplification and speakers so they can better find the fundamental tone they are looking for. This assumes they also know their objectives.


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Post subject:
Posted: Sat Oct 16, 2010 6:39 am
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I think there are too many variables to say definitively that one level of wattage is better/worse than another. I think you've gotta get the amp home, try it out and see if it's too loud for you, the neighbors, your spouse, or not having the characteristics you like to have in your sound. Also, most folks use pedals to get a dirty sound, so for most, having an amp that one can overdrive merely by turning the volume up isn't an issue. My two cents.

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Post subject:
Posted: Sat Oct 16, 2010 2:02 pm
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Blackstrat,

Basically I think you are in the right sense to say that with 6L6 there is more headroom ! However as others sayd, there are a lot of variables and not only due to the valves.

The headroom is not physical but physiologic criteria. I explain: headroom is not measured by non linear factors in the sound but by comparison with your hear. The level where you feel the amp breacks-up ! Nevertheless, if you have an amp 20 W and 40W with the same non linear factors, the second is louder by 3dB and has more headroom. A valve 20W equal a solidstate 20W but the harmonics are differents (pair for valve impair for transistors).

The good deal is to have enough pair harmonics that makes the sound as we love but the good level on top of the signal can not be adjusted independantly ! Then it is the sound's quest : lamp-bias-volume-tone correction -loudspeaker and mods ...

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Post subject:
Posted: Mon Oct 18, 2010 2:16 am
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Hi i have a 65 deluxe reverb ri played at a jam night there was a fellow jammer with vm 100 watt marshall head and quad box. i turned my amp up to nine and it kept up with it. the tone blue me away. marshall man said he wants to get one now thats just shows how 22 watts on nine can do. by the way we were tradeing licks on house is a rocken. love srv.Cheers from aus. :D


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