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Post subject: Technical Amp Question for Amp Experts
Posted: Tue Oct 12, 2010 8:24 am
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So we sold the house and we've moving to Australia. We have to decide what's goin' and what's stayin'. But what about my AMP?! My Fender Deluxe 112 says 120V 60Hz - I know I can step the voltage down from 230V in Aus to 120V, no problem but does anyone know if the 50Hz frequency will fry the amp? It's solid state, so I don't think so but I'd like to have some opinions before I ship the unit out there.

Thanks for any help!


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Post subject: 50 Hz for amp
Posted: Tue Oct 12, 2010 9:20 am
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Hi makepies,

Either 50 or 60 hertz will be just fine, no problem. :)

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Posted: Tue Oct 12, 2010 3:02 pm
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+ 1 Shimmilou for 50/60Hz, on top of that, check if have an export supply transformer because it can be adjusted to 230V AC with just a rewiring by a tech directly in Australia. 8)

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Post subject: 50/60 hertz
Posted: Tue Oct 12, 2010 3:17 pm
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Good thinking Tissan. I don't know which Deluxe the OP has, but here are some "Deluxe Export Power Transformers", for BDlx, and DRRI. If it is a HRDlx, probably the one for the BDlx would be the same. I am sure that there are other stores that have these too. :)

http://angela.com/fenderamplifiertransformers.aspx

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Post subject: Re: 50 Hz for amp
Posted: Tue Oct 12, 2010 7:02 pm
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shimmilou wrote:
Hi makepies,

Either 50 or 60 hertz will be just fine, no problem. :)


Awesome! That's what I was hoping. I'm not an electronics guy but I wonder if a valve amp would more sensitive. I know that any thing with a motor will have a very short life so we had to ditch anything like that ... including my beloved hot tub and the wife's Dyson ;)

Thanks for your help people.


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Posted: Tue Oct 12, 2010 7:38 pm
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I think you'd be fine with a stepdown tranny, 50 cycles usually works for most things.

But if it were me I think I'd dump the amp and get one later when you get there, and then you wouldn't have any problem.


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Posted: Tue Oct 12, 2010 9:54 pm
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not sooo....

first, stepping down from 220/230 to 110 volts is not the issue, i am assuming you understand why this is not an issue - once at the proper voltage, well, things are the proper voltage level, enough said.

But when it comes to frequency, there are going to be issues.

before we begin, you have to understand that when 60Hz comes out of the wall plug, it's 60Hz - as generated by the power station. Same for 50Hz. Transformers cannot convert 50Hz to 60Hz or vice versa. transformers can only convert one voltage level to another. they can also isolate the power from the wall socket to the amp thus preventing electrical shock and death in case of a groundig problem - assuming of course that you have not compromised the isolation. such transformers even have a name: isolation transformers and they are specially rated for the protection they offer.

If a transformer is rated for 50Hz, then using it at 60Hz is OK. Usually "50Hz" transformers will say 50-60Hz operation on the nameplate somewhere.

If a transformer is rated for 60Hz operation, it is intended only for 60Hz operation and only 60Hz will appear on the name plate (not 50-60Hz). if you operate a 60Hz transformer using a 50Hz voltage source (like your 50Hz wall plug) the 60Hz transformer will run hotter for the same current draw. if pushed to it's rated current limits, it most probably will burn up, not instantly, but say over 15min to 1 hour.

why problems and why this situation? here's a simple answer: cost. a slightly more complicated answer: 50-60Hz transformers have more copper, better laminated cores, bigger laminated cores, more, more metal (the metal, especially copper, is expensive) to deal with heat dissipation. The magnetics physics in the core are such that the lower the operating frequency is, the higher the losses will be due to wasteful eddy currents in the core. these eddy currents convert useful electrical energy into pure transformer heat. to deal with the heat, you need a lot of metal to get the heat out (less heat density). And of course, the more you drive the transformer with higher current demand, even more losses and heat will happen. So 50-60Hz transformers have a lot more metal in them and are more expensive.

By comaprison, 60Hz transformers weigh less and cost less, are designed to deal with the heat if operated at 60Hz at the current capacity on the name plate. 60Hz transformers are designed to deal the heat generated by 60Hz eddy currents, which is a lot less heat than those generated by 50Hz eddy currents. 60Hz transforms have less metal and less capability to deal with heat dissipation for the same current & voltage rated capacity than 50-60Hz transformers. The 60Hz transformers weigh less and cost less (due to a lot less metal). Most of the time, these transformers will overheat if operated at 50Hz at rated capacity. And as you begin to push a 60Hz transformer with 50Hz current to its rated capacity on the name plate, it will definitely begin to over heat, followed by destruction. So you can use a 60Hz transfomer at 50Hz, but operated at a much reduced current consumption (i.e., at less than the rated capacity on the name plate).

Most transformer construction is "cheap". the copper wire has an insulating goo over it and when overheated, this goo will melt, burn, followed by short circuited copper windings and then blown fuses. You can literally smell the onset of transformer failure - there will something like an unsweetened carmelish scent in the air, maybe a bit of blue/gray haze. once this happens, total failure is moments away.

one way to keep things cool is to add a fan. noisy, but an effective means to keep temperature down. Peltier devices can be used, but you have to know what you are doing to use these devices - burnt fingers, smoke, things like that, can result if you don't.

moral of story: always buy a transformer rated for 50-60Hz operation if you intended to use it in 50Hz country.

hope this helps,
johnny.


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Post subject:
Posted: Tue Oct 12, 2010 10:39 pm
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I'd try, www.tlc-direct.co.uk . Their 300Va step down trans is 50/60Hz input and 50/60Hz output rated. I'd contact them with any questions or reservations you might have. Thought we had some folks from Australia on this forum, maybe they could help you out. But I would see if different plug adapters are needed and so forth. Art

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Post subject: Re: 50/60 hertz
Posted: Wed Oct 13, 2010 12:38 am
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shimmilou wrote:
Good thinking Tissan. I don't know which Deluxe the OP has, but here are some "Deluxe Export Power Transformers", for BDlx, and DRRI. If it is a HRDlx, probably the one for the BDlx would be the same. I am sure that there are other stores that have these too. :)

http://angela.com/fenderamplifiertransformers.aspx



"Deluxe Export Power Transformers"
Sounds like some kind of kid's program.


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Post subject:
Posted: Wed Oct 13, 2010 4:55 am
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As I'm living in France and own a BDRI I can say that there is no issue, no life shorted ... with 50Hz and 240V AC voltage we currently have (before BDRI I owned Marshall JMC800, Dakota, Yamaha, Vox ...in early '80s already the sound quest ! ). 8)

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