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Posted: Fri Oct 15, 2010 2:59 pm
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Retroverbial wrote:
bluesky636 wrote:
Retroverbial wrote:
He was deaf.

Arjay


So was Beethoven.

Frankly, I find your statement that deaf people cannot appreciate great "tone" to be insulting. I've known many deaf and blind people who probably have a better appreciation of the world around them then you ever will.


Sure, pal.

You want some "hearing-challenged" audio engineer mastering what might be your only shot at a decent demo to land a major recording contract?

Or perhaps you prefer that some "visually-challenged" cardio-vascular surgeon perform your quintuple-bypass surgery?

Whatever assuages your guilt, you go for it.

And for the record, I am not denigrating anyone with a physical handicap. But as Clint Eastwood so aptly put it as "Dirty Harry" in a film of some note......

"A man's got to know his limitations."

That's how the real world works and I care not a whit that you feel "insulted". The simple fact of the matter is, Les Paul -- genius that he was in many regards -- laid a number of eggs in his quest for tone. The Les Paul guitar would've ended up as another also-ran if not for the persistence of Seth Lover in designing the quintessential humbucking pickup and Ted McCarty's vision to install it in the guitar in 1957. Contrast that with Mr. Fender's then-contemporary rival effort, the Stratocaster. Leo hit it out of the ballpark once the design was finalized and placed into production.

Get a grip.

Arjay



arjay,
I recogise reality, but a man who knows his limitations never crosses the line that makes him extraordinary.
Clint Eastwood never killed anybody. It's just a movie, in the real world, no cop would get away with a Dirty Harry reputation.

People who are hard of hearing are NOT "DEAF". And as bluesky says, the deaf and blind may be able to appreciate more than those who don't suffer
those disabilities.
Usually, people who don't understand what it is like first hand will not be able to relate to those that do.
As for a challenged, not deaf, audio engineer, I am pretty sure that he would know how to compensate for his loss.
IF what I was invisioning would help a person who is "hard of hearing" it just might blow the doors off the minds of the those "normal" people who
think they don't need or want it.

But before you think me a complete $@!, however, a challenged player's hearing profile will obviously differ from another and the adjustments made will differ from one person who does hear "perceptively" better than the next, whether they think their hearing is perfect or not.
Why? Because EVERYBODY's hearing profiles are slightly different.
For all you know, some day, your own hearing may be way off.
In varying degrees of intensity, earing does get worse as you get older but one can lose their hearing suddenly. Never take your for granted.
Just food for thought.
Again, before you think me a complete $@!, it isn't really the amp that
necessarily needs the adjustability, but the listener.
Even if I could hear as good and possessed as much knowledge and skill as the best sound engineer in the world, the tone may differ to me because of differences in bone density of the skull, and the properties of all the parts of the inner and outer ear. These little things on the microscopic level are what contribute to differences of opinion.
Now, your talkin about a demo tape..... I would suspect that an accomplished musician will know by then whether an engineer is capable.
After all, the engineer will be endorsed by those that hired him/her by then.
One last thing.... those who try harder than others, may do a better job.

IMHO, a recording studio ought to have a bank of certified hearing corrective EQ amplifiers and headsets for all people involved in the recording process. Settings are made to compensate for the loss each musician may have which can be obtained during a hearing test and profiled on the musician and studio staff's test's audiograms.


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Post subject:
Posted: Fri Oct 15, 2010 3:00 pm
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bluesky636 wrote:
Twinhit wrote:
bluesky636 wrote:
Retroverbial wrote:
He was deaf.

Arjay


So was Beethoven.

Frankly, I find your statement that deaf people cannot appreciate great "tone" to be insulting. I've known many deaf and blind people who probably have a better appreciation of the world around them then you ever will.


Beethoven came to my mind, too.


Good thing he didn't know how limited he was.



concur

Anyone deserving of a badass award, Beethoven would be high on the list.


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Posted: Fri Oct 15, 2010 3:43 pm
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Beethoven knew absolutely nothing about the specific subject at hand.

So spare me the sanctimonious sophistry.

Arjay

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Posted: Fri Oct 15, 2010 4:19 pm
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Retroverbial wrote:
Beethoven knew absolutely nothing about the specific subject at hand.

So spare me the sanctimonious sophistry.

Arjay


Apparently, seeing the man's been dead for some time, but his music is older than Edison's lightbulb, let alone vacuum tubes, amplifiers and professional sound engineering. His work and those of his contempories and predecessors and successors attest to the keen understanding of music which embody a common bottom line: Frequency and tone perception comprehension and their importance in composition.
I believe he would have understood this discussion quite thoroughly.


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Posted: Fri Oct 15, 2010 4:29 pm
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Be nice guys. I don't get the comparison. Beethoven never recorded or used a guitar amp, so what's this have to do with an amplified guitar tone?

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Posted: Fri Oct 15, 2010 4:51 pm
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63supro wrote:
Be nice guys. I don't get the comparison. Beethoven never recorded or used a guitar amp, so what's this have to do with an amplified guitar tone?


It doesn't but unfortunately Arjay's got some sort of issue with people who are interested in the subject who are hard of hearing. Namely, me.
many people think that a volumn and tone knob will do, some look for a little more, and some for different reasons would be happy with a hundred knobs.
IMHO just because I like black and somone else likes blue doesn't mean we cannot compromise and agree to go out beat someone else black and blue.

:wink:


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Posted: Fri Oct 15, 2010 4:52 pm
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63supro wrote:
Be nice guys. I don't get the comparison. Beethoven never recorded or used a guitar amp, so what's this have to do with an amplified guitar tone?


Let me explain it to you, then I will leave this thread to the moderators if they wish to step in.

It is Arjay's implication that because someone is disabled, they cannot appreciate the same things that a non-disabled person can. BS

The statement that "a man should know his limitations" is also BS. Leo Fender was a radio repairman who couldn't play a guitar to save his life. Yet he went beyond his limitations and gave us the guitars and amps we play and love today. Building on Arjay's ridiculous example of a blind surgeon, Leo should have stuck to repairing radios.

If you can't understand that, too bad.

I'm done with this conversation. As far as I am concerned the mods can lock this thread or delete the last couple pages of posts.

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Posted: Fri Oct 15, 2010 5:28 pm
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If I may....
It IS insulting to be condescended because of something I have no control, in this case, my hearing loss.

The military allow gays in the military but they wouldn't allow me because of my hearing loss.

The DOT required that I wear hearing aids to drive a semi yet deaf people can drive a car.

The US Navy was the genius behind the detrimental effects of incompetent surgery on my ears when I was a very small child during the Vietnam war.

As result, I labored throughout my formative years in schools that were illequipped to deal with people suffering from hearing loss. My education suffered and as a consequence, so too did my potential in the workplace.
But in spite of my experiences, in spite of the limitation lines drawn, I'm still persistant in contributing something to society even if society thinks
my ideas are a bit out of their comfortable realm of norms.

Leo Fender was always trying to perfect what he was doing. So too were many others in many other fields and progress ensued. Why? Because limitations were not an option but an invitation to advance an idea further.

A guitar player needed an amp, didn't have one, borrowed a Bassman and the rest was history. If he had limited himself and refused to use that amp. Musical history just might not be the same.


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Posted: Fri Oct 15, 2010 5:41 pm
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Don't take comments and opinions so personally. Things get out of hand when people get defensive. One thing leads to another. I have congenital birth defects and have heard comments all my life and never take offense. If I did, I'd be a humorless, miserable person. Who cares about gays in the military. You need to hear things happening around you in the service, I couldn't run, at times I can barely walk so it kept me out during the tail end of Viet Nam. I'm not upset at all. Sexual preference has nothing to do with battle performance where running, walking and hearing do. :wink:

I had to deal with no elevators in some buildings, no handicap ramps etc when I was growing up in the 50's and 60's and never complained, I just adapted. I blame no one for my life or obstacles I had to overcome. I just move on and I am grateful I can walk at all. I became a problem solver at a very early age and I still am. I find the word sympathy between the words between s**t and syphilis in the dictionary and don't want any of it. That's just how I live and how I was raised. The only thing I ever complained about was that POS HRDlx I had. LOL :D

Lighten Up!!

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Posted: Fri Oct 15, 2010 6:20 pm
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63supro wrote:
Don't take comments and opinions so personally. Things get out of hand when people get defensive. One thing leads to another. I have congenital birth defects and have heard comments all my life and never take offense. If I did, I'd be a humorless, miserable person. Who cares about gays in the military. You need to hear things happening around you in the service, I couldn't run, at times I can barely walk so it kept me out during the tail end of Viet Nam. I'm not upset at all. Sexual preference has nothing to do with battle performance where running, walking and hearing do. :wink:

I had to deal with no elevators in some buildings, no handicap ramps etc when I was growing up in the 50's and 60's and never complained, I just adapted. I blame no one for my life or obstacles I had to overcome. I just move on and I am grateful I can walk at all. I became a problem solver at a very early age and I still am. I find the word sympathy between the words between s**t and syphilis in the dictionary and don't want any of it. That's just how I live and how I was raised. The only thing I ever complained about was that POS HRDlx I had. LOL :D

Lighten Up!!


Oh, I am quite lightened up, that was information to convey that I wasn't making things up - some people simply don't believe everything they read.
As for military service, peacetime or otherwise, I could've driven a truck, run heavy equipment and much more. But I was denied the opportunity.
As far the homogay/add women in the military/women in combat issue goes, I was merely pointing out the hypocrisy that while they are enjoying favorable treatment, the disabled are discriminated against.
I can also say that I have delivered sensative materials on behalf of the branches of the military, defense industries, and government in general.
The government just has a "funny" way of doing business.

I wasn't looking for sympathy. But I deserve some basic respect and courtesy as much as the next.
Afterall, without the truck driver, the world slows waaaaaaaay down.
I am used to expecting BS waiting to greet me like an accident just around the corner.

And.... Complacency sits between two very dirty words.


Last edited by Twinhit on Fri Oct 15, 2010 11:37 pm, edited 3 times in total.

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Posted: Fri Oct 15, 2010 7:14 pm
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63supro wrote:
....The only thing I ever complained about was that POS HRDlx I had. LOL :D


Now that was a disability! :lol:

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Posted: Fri Oct 15, 2010 7:34 pm
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shimmilou wrote:
63supro wrote:
....The only thing I ever complained about was that POS HRDlx I had. LOL :D


Now that was a disability! :lol:


+1


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Posted: Sat Oct 16, 2010 5:46 am
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OK, looks like peace has broken out - perhaps we can carry on the discussion of the BJ mk3 :wink:

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Posted: Sat Oct 16, 2010 7:36 am
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On the BJ-iii I can hear no major difference between it and its Divine Predecessors at the shop.

On the Hot Rod Deluxe-iii with the Celeston GP-12 and finally a real audio taper pot on the volume knob.
No idea, straight out of the box it would not power up.
Guess it did not survive the shipping, so shop sends it back and try again :)

I will check it out again, those 2 changes should be major and welcome alterations.
Though I am already wondering about the new series III reliability being similar to the previous versions.

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Posted: Mon Oct 18, 2010 9:12 am
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peterp wrote:
On the BJ-iii I can hear no major difference between it and its Divine Predecessors at the shop.

On the Hot Rod Deluxe-iii with the Celeston GP-12 and finally a real audio taper pot on the volume knob.
No idea, straight out of the box it would not power up.
Guess it did not survive the shipping, so shop sends it back and try again :)

I will check it out again, those 2 changes should be major and welcome alterations.
Though I am already wondering about the new series III reliability being similar to the previous versions.


Really glad they improved it. :shock:

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