It is currently Tue Mar 17, 2020 4:09 am

All times are UTC - 7 hours



Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 14 posts ] 
Author Message
Post subject: Hot Rod Speaker Lead Polarity?
Posted: Mon Sep 27, 2010 5:10 pm
Offline
Hobbyist
Hobbyist

Joined: Mon Sep 27, 2010 4:17 pm
Posts: 9
A big hello and a massive "help!"

In attempting to replace my stock speaker in the hot rod deluxe, I've become confused as to the polarity of the leads. Both wires are jacketed in black, and at the end of the leads one is colored black. The other is uncolered or marked in any way. Is black the traditional ground? Or is the lead that's received attention supposed to be the hot wire? I don't know how to connect my new speaker. The speaker itself has clearly marked its positive terminal. But my amp's wires have confused me. I called Fender and they weren't sure either.

Perplexed in Ann Arbor,

Aaron



Image

Image[/url]


Top
Profile
Fender Play Winter Sale 2020
Post subject: HRd speaker polarity
Posted: Mon Sep 27, 2010 6:23 pm
Offline
Rock Icon
Rock Icon
User avatar

Joined: Tue Jun 29, 2010 1:20 pm
Posts: 9640
Location: Indiana
Hi joe pistachio,

I think that the positive lead will have small ridges running along the length of the wire that you can feel, and the neg lead will be smooth, you can see it if your eyes are good or use a magnifier. But to be sure, pull the plug from the jack, and using an ohm meter to check continuity, the positive wire is the tip of the speaker plug. It won't hurt anything if you hook up the speaker with backwards polarity, it will just be out of phase with other amps and you'll hear the sound dropping out, if you play together with another amp. :)

Edit:
I just checked my HRDlx, and the positive wire does indeed have the ridges. But my positive speaker wire connector is colored red.

_________________
---> "The amp should be SWITCHED OFF AND UNPLUGGED before you do this!" <---

Por favor, disculpe mi español, no se llega a la práctica con mucha frecuencia.


Top
Profile
Post subject:
Posted: Mon Sep 27, 2010 6:46 pm
Offline
Hobbyist
Hobbyist

Joined: Mon Sep 27, 2010 4:17 pm
Posts: 9
Thank you so much. I just checked and the wire with ridges is the wire without marking on the connector. The connector with black ink is smooth.

If only I'd paid attention to which was which before disconnecting the stock speaker. Guess I figured it would be clear to me later regardless. I figured wrong.

I think I'll go with the ridge trick and see what happens.

Thanks again.


Top
Profile
Post subject:
Posted: Tue Sep 28, 2010 12:01 am
Offline
Hobbyist
Hobbyist

Joined: Mon Sep 27, 2010 4:17 pm
Posts: 9
Did the battery test. I first connected the black connector to the positive blade on the speaker and the unblemished connector to the negative blade on the speaker. I then placed a nine volt battery's positive and negative terminals against the Hot Rod's speaker plug. The cone sucked in. I then switched connectors and the cone thrust outwards.

Does this mean that the black blade is the ground and the unblemished blade is positive? Somewhat confusing to me because the the amp plug isn't a pair of speaker wires, but instead just one big plug.


Top
Profile
Post subject:
Posted: Tue Sep 28, 2010 12:18 am
Offline
Rock Icon
Rock Icon
User avatar

Joined: Wed Mar 31, 2010 12:48 am
Posts: 26417
Location: Tombstone Territory
Get yourself a cheepie DVM at your local Lowe's, Home Depot, or Ace Hardware (they're only about ten bucks) and use it to determine the continuity between the tip end of the plug and the other end of the wire harness. Whichever wire shows a dead short between the tip and the connecting lug is your positive wire.

HTH

Arjay

_________________
"Here's why reliability is job one: A great sounding amp that breaks down goes from being a favorite piece of gear to a useless piece of crap in less time than it takes to read this sentence." -- BRUCE ZINKY


Top
Profile
Post subject:
Posted: Tue Sep 28, 2010 1:03 am
Offline
Hobbyist
Hobbyist

Joined: Mon Sep 27, 2010 4:17 pm
Posts: 9
I actually had a digital multimeter in my toolbox. Never used it before. Popped a battery in and tried it out. I first connected the negative lead from the multimeter to both on the wire blades. Both shorted every time. Then I tried it by connecting the red/positive lead from the multimeter to both of the wire blades. This time only the unblemished blade shorted, and each time the blackened blade remaind "open."

If I've done any of these tests correctly, it would appear that the unblemished blade/wire is my positive wire and the blackened blade/wire is my ground wire. I will now proceed with this as my working theory and attempt to put my amplifier back together.

Whether I've done this correctly or not, I want to thank each of you gentlemen for helping me to try to sort this out.


Top
Profile
Post subject: Speaker polarity
Posted: Tue Sep 28, 2010 7:31 am
Offline
Rock Icon
Rock Icon
User avatar

Joined: Tue Jun 29, 2010 1:20 pm
Posts: 9640
Location: Indiana
joe pistachio wrote:
I actually had a digital multimeter in my toolbox. Never used it before.


I'm not sure where you are placing your meter leads, but the speaker cable needs to be unplugged from the amp and speaker, so that it isn't connected to anything. Then, using the ohms position on the meter, put one lead of your meter to the tip of the plug of the speaker cable, and the other lead of your meter to each of the speaker connections at the other end of the speaker cable one at a time. When the meter reads 0 (or close to 0, or it beeps) that is which wire is connected to the tip (positive, red or unmarked). Then verify that the "sleeve" of the speaker plug is connected to the other wire (negative or black) by touching one meter lead to the sleeve of the plug, and the other meter lead to each of the speaker connections on the other end, look for the 0 ohms, or hear the beep, just as before. Since we are only checking continuity, it doesn't matter which color leads of the meter are connected where, similar to checking a fuse.

joe pistachio wrote:
If I've done any of these tests correctly, it would appear that the unblemished blade/wire is my positive wire and the blackened blade/wire is my ground wire. I will now proceed with this as my working theory and attempt to put my amplifier back together.

Whether I've done this correctly or not, I want to thank each of you gentlemen for helping me to try to sort this out.


Yes, the black one is negative. I thought that we had already figured that out by checking for ridges on the cable. :lol:

Edit:
Make sure to mark which speaker jack that your speaker is connected to on your amp, it should be the jack farthest away from the tubes, it does matter which one that you use. :idea:

_________________
---> "The amp should be SWITCHED OFF AND UNPLUGGED before you do this!" <---

Por favor, disculpe mi español, no se llega a la práctica con mucha frecuencia.


Top
Profile
Post subject:
Posted: Tue Sep 28, 2010 8:28 am
Offline
Rock Star
Rock Star

Joined: Mon Apr 05, 2010 2:37 pm
Posts: 8708
Location: Natural Bridge, Virginia
Speaker polarity in a single speaker, single amp system is totally irrelevant. Unless you are an audiophile who demands absolute signal polarity from input to output, i.e.: a positive going input signal causes a positive going speaker motion. Positive speaker motion being defined as moving forward. Arguements claiming that you can/cannot hear a difference due to absolute phase have been raging for years. Don't forget that each time a signal goes through an amplifier stage, the signal is inverted. So if the amp has three stages, a positive going input signal will be output as negative going. Add a fourth amp stage and the ouput is positive again. The speaker does not care. It is only translating an electrical signal into physical movement? Can you tell the difference if the speaker is moving out vs moving in? I can't. I doubt anyone esle can either.

The only time speaker poalrity is of concern is if you have a multiple speaker cabinet, or are using multiple amps. In both those cases you want each speaker to be in phase with each other. But it still does not matter if you have the + and - terminals reversed as long as each speaker is connected the same way.

Bottom line, in a Hot Rod Deluxe with one speaker, speaker polarity doesn't matter.

_________________
Bill

Image


Top
Profile
Post subject:
Posted: Tue Sep 28, 2010 2:09 pm
Offline
Hobbyist
Hobbyist

Joined: Mon Sep 27, 2010 4:17 pm
Posts: 9
I also have the matching extension cabinet.

Everything's been put back together. I feel comfortable that polarity has been put into its proper place.

Thanks so much, shimmilou. You really came through.


Top
Profile
Post subject:
Posted: Tue Sep 28, 2010 3:25 pm
Offline
Rock Star
Rock Star

Joined: Mon Apr 05, 2010 2:37 pm
Posts: 8708
Location: Natural Bridge, Virginia
joe pistachio wrote:
I also have the matching extension cabinet.

Everything's been put back together. I feel comfortable that polarity has been put into its proper place.

Thanks so much, shimmilou. You really came through.


Cool. Are you sure the cab is wired in the same polarity as the main speaker? :D

_________________
Bill

Image


Top
Profile
Post subject:
Posted: Tue Sep 28, 2010 3:53 pm
Offline
Rock Icon
Rock Icon
User avatar

Joined: Tue Jun 29, 2010 1:20 pm
Posts: 9640
Location: Indiana
joe pistachio wrote:
I also have the matching extension cabinet....


Wow! I just got mine about a week ago. It seems really dark, with great low end, but not very good on the highs, compared to the speaker in the amp. I really like the sound of the speaker cab when using the drive channel though. I have never quite liked the drive channel until I used it with this cab. From the reviews and description, I really expected the Celestion speaker to sound a little better than it does, although I had in mind to possibly change the speaker too. I might try an Eminence Red White and Blues and see how it sounds. What do you think about your new cab? :)

_________________
---> "The amp should be SWITCHED OFF AND UNPLUGGED before you do this!" <---

Por favor, disculpe mi español, no se llega a la práctica con mucha frecuencia.


Top
Profile
Post subject:
Posted: Tue Sep 28, 2010 4:44 pm
Offline
Hobbyist
Hobbyist

Joined: Mon Sep 27, 2010 4:17 pm
Posts: 9
Ha. Yes, it would certainly be nice if the speaker polarity of the cab were in sync with that of the combo. ;>}

Quote:
Wow! I just got mine about a week ago. It seems really dark, with great low end, but not very good on the highs, compared to the speaker in the amp. I really like the sound of the speaker cab when using the drive channel though. I have never quite liked the drive channel until I used it with this cab. From the reviews and description, I really expected the Celestion speaker to sound a little better than it does, although I had in mind to possibly change the speaker too. I might try an Eminence Red White and Blues and see how it sounds. What do you think about your new cab?


Well, I've had the HRD and the extension cab for roughly three years I'd say. But it's been awhile since I've played either. I play a yamaha flamenco on a daily basis. BUT, my recollection of the pair tells me that the sound of the two together seemed to provide a better overall balance of sound from top to bottom. It also sounded like such a bigger cabinet; and, of course, it is. But top to bottom coherence is what I recall being particularly different after adding the extension. Bottom end filled in deeper and tighter. Better texture. More interesting textures and layers. But perhaps that's just my imagination. I plan to find out soon enough.

I just replaced the stock eminence in the combo with the vintage 30 - that's what all of the trouble was about ;>}. So I'm going to spend some time listening to the combo by itself and then the two stacked together. I might even go crazy and try this Way Huge Fat Sandwich harmonic saturator that I bought several months ago and have never tried.


Top
Profile
Post subject:
Posted: Tue Sep 28, 2010 6:08 pm
Offline
Rock Star
Rock Star

Joined: Mon Apr 05, 2010 2:37 pm
Posts: 8708
Location: Natural Bridge, Virginia
joe pistachio wrote:
Ha. Yes, it would certainly be nice if the speaker polarity of the cab were in sync with that of the combo. ;>}

Well, I've had the HRD and the extension cab for roughly three years I'd say. But it's been awhile since I've played either. I play a yamaha flamenco on a daily basis. BUT, my recollection of the pair tells me that the sound of the two together seemed to provide a better overall balance of sound from top to bottom. It also sounded like such a bigger cabinet; and, of course, it is. But top to bottom coherence is what I recall being particularly different after adding the extension. Bottom end filled in deeper and tighter. Better texture. More interesting textures and layers. But perhaps that's just my imagination. I plan to find out soon enough.

I just replaced the stock eminence in the combo with the vintage 30 - that's what all of the trouble was about ;>}. So I'm going to spend some time listening to the combo by itself and then the two stacked together. I might even go crazy and try this Way Huge Fat Sandwich harmonic saturator that I bought several months ago and have never tried.


Easy way to tell if both speakers are in phase is to just stack them normally and play some low, open string chords (E, A, G, etc.). Listen to how they sound. Then turn one of the boxes 180 degrees and repeat. If they sound best with both facing you normally, they are in pase. If they sound best with one flipped around, they are out of phase. In that case, just reverse the connections on one of them. The amp cab would be easiest since it is open back.

_________________
Bill

Image


Top
Profile
Post subject:
Posted: Tue Sep 28, 2010 6:27 pm
Offline
Hobbyist
Hobbyist

Joined: Mon Sep 27, 2010 4:17 pm
Posts: 9
Awesome. I'll try that tonight.

I'm thinking that the individual who made the cable must have run out of red ink to mark the positive wire with, and found black to mark the ground wire with.


Top
Profile
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 14 posts ] 

All times are UTC - 7 hours

Fender Play Winter Sale 2020

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 2 guests


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum

Search for:
Jump to: