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Posted: Tue Sep 21, 2010 12:33 pm
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Aspiring Musician
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Those who know me know I'm a "tube guy" however I think for some styles of music (jazz) the s.s. amp is a great choice. Many jazz players actually prefer solid state because they are so clean. So they do have their place but for most of us who need that natural breakup it is only going to be achieved from a tube amp.


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Posted: Tue Sep 21, 2010 3:42 pm
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nice to see old friends again, even luddites. where you all been hiding?

Tube crap has been around way longer than it should, most prominantly in the guitar amp market. Says something, but I dare not put it in print. on another note, one may take issue with an idea, but taking issue with an individual, well... for example, if I said a tubester were a bozo, that would be personal, if I said, the idea was a bozo idea because of this and that, well that's taking an issue with the idea (but both poorly expressed and goading in any case), and if I said, the idea was flawed due to this and that, that would be most perferable and not personal. but i understand emotion, pretty hard not to get sucked in.

Modern, that is 21st century stuff, use SS, computers, the net, USB, software (not underwear), multi-library effects, file management, PAs, and so on. We watch and listen to it day-in and day-out, nary a complaint, until it comes to guitar amps... An assault on a way an ancient way of life? Or a belief like guitar amp creationism? not really, it's only natural evolution, things get better, and better, and better, and in general people get smarter, and smarter, and smarter. take a hint.

the absolute test of such tubie "urban legends", is an absolute listening test, double blind testing preferably, the results astonish even die hard tubesters. And keep in mind guitar amps are merely tools to bring out your developed talent. I have found the SEs to have the kind of great tone and versatility to bring out the most creative thoughts a button press away. Don't let some tube boob brow beat you and prevent you from your own discoveries. Explore everything with critical thinking, both tube and non-tube amps, see what fits. Ultimately, your ears, musicianship, and wallet make the decision.

until the next volley, ciao boys,
johnny.


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Posted: Tue Sep 21, 2010 4:02 pm
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Next you'll try to convince me that some new neo-dym Jensen is a better-sounding speaker than an alnico JBL made forty years ago.

:mrgreen:

Arjay, proud (yes, proud!) to be a "tube boob"......

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Posted: Tue Sep 21, 2010 4:27 pm
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Loaded sentences if I ever saw some.

You should run for office, your lines are about as good as the daily dose of why we should let go of our traditions and our strengths and bow to the rest of the world from our left winged leader.

"tube crap" "emotions" yep were just poor weak minded idiots.

Your just a guy trying to make a buck off of folks hoping technology will be there magic potion to turn them into rock stars.

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Posted: Tue Sep 21, 2010 11:58 pm
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and for the jealous little person, me making money on this??? it's more like a charity organization keeping the lights on. and what exactly does that have to do with tone? don't like the SE, try a JC-120, or a line 6. by the way, what exactly is your contribution to humanity, creativity, music, knowledge, commerce, or anything relevant? hot air and diatribe don't count, neither idle fingers doing the devil's work.

no, i don't want to convince YOU of anything. go find out for yourself big guy. if you don't like me bashing tubes, tough. maybe it's time someone did.

such teenagers.

ciao,
johnny.


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Posted: Wed Sep 22, 2010 2:50 pm
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Retroverbial wrote:
Next you'll try to convince me that some new neo-dym Jensen is a better-sounding speaker than an alnico JBL made forty years ago.

:mrgreen:

Arjay, proud (yes, proud!) to be a "tube boob"......

Are there really crazy people out there buying 40+ year old speakers?? Why in the world would anyone... ok nevermind, it must be that whole tone addiction! :D


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Posted: Wed Sep 22, 2010 2:54 pm
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cedarblues wrote:
Why in the world would anyone... ok nevermind, it must be that whole tone addiction! :D


Weisenheimer!

:mrgreen:

Arjay

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Posted: Wed Sep 22, 2010 5:45 pm
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Hey, all bantering aside... Wouldn't you think the current cybers will be phased out and replaced soon.... I wonder about this, because of the "New" Gdec's and mustang's. I would think cyber will have a change as well. This brings me to a point I've always had issue with. If I paid $1000.00 for a cyber twin, then they update, change. discontinue... I feel a bit ripped off. Case in point with my original Gdec, there is absolutely no upgrade path for this amp. If I want any of the new stuff, I have to buy a new Gdec. Well guess what, Im not buying. Do we think we will have 40 year old Cyber Twins or GDec's? Do we have 40 year old tube amps? Yes.

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Posted: Thu Sep 23, 2010 5:54 am
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this is real interesting..... i keep hearing problems about the fender solid stat amps, especially ones with any kind of dsp processing.

i looked at the fender ss models, but also am looking at the peavey bandit 112 newer model. it gets rave reviews for sound, and seems to have a good reputation.

what's a person to do? i love my fender products, but not sure about the quality of amps


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Posted: Thu Sep 23, 2010 8:25 am
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I have owned three cyber twins, wanted to love them however......

In my music room there are several tube amps and when you A-B a real tube amp against any digital wonder it fails to come close to the warm lifelike sound of a tube amp.

I am here to make sure all the "teenagers" out there don't get lost in the lies of the sanke oil boys telling them digital is as good, its not.

There is a reason that The overwhelming majority of pro players use tubes.

You can no doubt pick out a select few names that don't, they are a small minority.

Tubes = Tone allways will

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Posted: Fri Sep 24, 2010 11:11 pm
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don't have any problems with my Cybers, have been and continue to be great amps.

skanky farts are what i would worry about, generally loud, opinionated, and deathly afraid of anything "computer" like. these guys are generally not motivated to learn anything taking them out of their comfort zone. so blah-blah-blah.

I continue to say: be honest, take a double blind test and see for yourself.

As for the new gear, yes, i expect it to get more and more capable. It's the nature of things. I am used to my cybers, they have a lot of options not in the latest gear. If a new cyber 3 comes out, and if it's good, hell, i'll go for it.

as for value, it's what some one will pay for it. so I guess it pays to create myths about old gear being something special (like an old, old car with a snazzy painy job). but it won't make you a better player, or make you sound better. someone can always say it does. but it won't. developed talent will.

ciao,
johnny.


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Posted: Sat Sep 25, 2010 1:22 am
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Arjay

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Posted: Sat Sep 25, 2010 3:41 am
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Too funny Arjay!! :lol:

So I consider myself a "computer" guy, always playing with the latest gadgets and I've been in IT for way too long... but I know what my ears tell me, and so far the good ol' reliable Fender tubes are still giving me the tone I crave...

I'm willing to take the blind test, care to share a couple of clips so I can see how bad my ears are?

I'd like to apologize to the OP, your post was about Cyber amps and this turned into a debate instead! Hope you made a decision and got the amp you wanted...


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Posted: Sat Sep 25, 2010 7:55 pm
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isn't it fun to see the teenagers (no matter how old) come out and play in the digital world? at least it keeps them off the streets. looking forward to more digital graffiti (at least it's not on someone's wall).

Blind tests have to be with the real amps, same room. Neither the guy setting up the test the test (amp selection, amp settings, etc...) nor the subject are allowed to communicate in any way (to prevent pollution). a third notes the test subjects response and commands the tester. the amp setup is done in such a manner that their "tone" is matched apriori. you then let the test subject figure out if it's tube or ss. The idea is to set as many settings as reasonable from clean to distorted, as see what the subject identifies as tube or ss, and what he prefers. remember, you trying to set up an unbiased test methodology. any kind of bias whatsoever invalidates the tests. this is not as easy as it sounds, but it is a lot of fun to do, you end up learning a few things in the process.

the general findings were already reported in this forum, i can't recall the posts. they were along the lines: clean tones can't be differentiated, in the end it came down to whatever the user prefered, neither tube nor ss was prefered over the other. when it came to significant levels of overdrive, the tube amps had the edge, they were considered more pleasing. so your preference will depend on what you are playing. if anything, the lesson learned was you have try it.

with the cybers, i use a mild amount of dirt. it is pleasing and gives me the tones i want (which include reverb and delay effects).

ciao,
johnny.


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Post subject:
Posted: Sat Sep 25, 2010 8:59 pm
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Personally, I'm betting that your Cyber Twin has seldom, if ever, left your momma's basement.

Thus, Lord Vader......if you'd care to post pics of you and your technological marvel onstage together, I'd love to be proven wrong.

Perhaps you might even work your company logo into the image and let folks know how much vested interest you have in flogging these amps.

Arjay

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"Here's why reliability is job one: A great sounding amp that breaks down goes from being a favorite piece of gear to a useless piece of crap in less time than it takes to read this sentence." -- BRUCE ZINKY


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