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Post subject: '65 Deluxe Reverb sounds bad with pedals
Posted: Sun Sep 19, 2010 10:33 am
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Just bought an almost new 65 DRRI and I love the clean sound of this amp, so sparkling alive in every sense.

But - when I hit it with an overdrive stomp box the sound sucks big time, suddenly harsh and hard edged.

The same stomp boxes (Ibanez STL and Marshall Guv'nor 2) sounded great on my old Blues Junior and I don't know what's happening here.

Listen to this clip: Strat => Ibanes '85 STL Super Tube => Deluxe Reverb

More clean sound clips of the guitar and amp on my YouTube

Any ideas?

Jim
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Last edited by JimDane on Mon Oct 11, 2010 7:50 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Posted: Sun Sep 19, 2010 2:40 pm
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I had the exact same problem with my DRRI. Try plugging in the Normal Channel. The Vibrato Channel has a capacitor that increases the highs the more you turn down the volume. This helps with the difference in the way our ears percieve treble and bass at lower volume levels (kinda like the "LOUD" button on many car stereos).
If this solves your problem, great. If not, try swapping out your preamp tubes. When I first got my DRRI. I replaced several of the preamp tubes in the first 6 months. This very well may be all it is. Let us know how it goes!

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Posted: Sun Sep 19, 2010 2:41 pm
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Congrats on the new amp! I listened to the clips, didn't think it sounded harsh actually, maybe a bit dark... maybe adjust the tone on the pedal if possible or turn up the treble some on the amp. I'm not familiar with these pedals, but I do use an Ibanez TS9 and it sounds wonderful thru the DRRI! I don't like a lot of drive so I keep it kinda low and turn up the amp.

Nice playing btw!


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Posted: Mon Sep 20, 2010 3:45 am
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I was wondering if the harsh sound could come from the speaker needing to be broken in? This amp has practically not being used for a couple of years since new.

How much time does a speaker need to break in?

Jim


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Posted: Mon Sep 20, 2010 7:03 am
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Heya, I had the DRRI for a while and came up against the same sound. Perfect clean amp, then when you hit a drive pedal you get the ice-pick. Like having the presence too far up on a Marshall.
Yes, it's the bright cap on the vibrato channel. True the speaker is a little harsher until it's broken in after approx 100 hours of playing, but it's definitely the bright cap. Plug into the normal channel and hear the difference - no bright cap.

The Deluxe Rev has a fixed bright cap, doing the same job as the bright switch on the bigger blackface amps, but you can't turn it off. The other Fender blackface amps have a bright switch which puts a 120pf capacitor across the volume pot to boost high frequencies at lower volumes. The legendary amp tech Cesar Diaz changed the value of the cap to 250pf on Stevie Ray Vaughan's fenders to make it work less like a presence control and more like an upper midrange boost. It's a matter of taste what frequencies you like but it's a fact that the Deluxe 'vibrato' channel uses a 47pf cap which boosts a higher frequency range than the standard blackface circuit. This makes it sound a little too fizzy or spikey to many players, me included. This is the excess bright that you're hearing, it's not the speaker. The options to fix this are either change the cap out to the standard value if you like the sound of Fender bright switches, or just remove it. I clipped mine and LOVED the sound after.

Note too that this does not make it sound the same as the normal channel because it still has an extra gain stage, it's more sparkling and full, but the treble is dropped into a lower range that I like more. It sounds more like other Fender amps, and the fizz is gone, it just turns the bright switch off. This simple mod reduces the apparent midrange scoop caused by raising the higher frequencies and lets the bottom end and lower mids breathe more.

This is a very very simple, non-destructive change that any competent amp tech can do in less time than it takes to unscrew the amp out of the combo box, and can fix again just as easily. It involves one little 2 dollar cap. BUT it may void your warranty :!: I'd recommend it to anyone who uses a dirt box or two as part of their sound.

But if you're a player who runs a mostly clean sound, and likes the DRRI cranked up to around 6 or more then I would just leave it stock, because that is an incredible tone too. As you crank a blackface Fender up past half you get less highs anyway, and the low end can overwhelm so you end up dialing most of the bass out and opening up the treble. This is where the bright cap in the DRRI works a treat, it lets the cranked overdrive still be clear and sparkly. But even at 'only' 22 watts that is a freakin loud little amp at those settings.
One of the classics, enjoy, but don't be afraid to do what thousands of Fender players have done before and kill the bright cap. 8)

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Posted: Mon Sep 20, 2010 8:47 am
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Thanks, I think I will have him do that.

I took my setup into the local shop today to test overdrive stomp boxes and I tested the amp with a Digitech Hardwire CM2 Tube Overdrive and it sounded much better on the DRRI.

But - there was still a harsh edge to the sound of the upper strings, probably coming from a rattling tube. He will run through the tubes and find the offending one.

I think Iøm going to ask him to cut that bright cap too because I will be using the amp in the 3-4 voume range only.

I'll check in later with the results, I will surely buy that sweet CM-2 overdrive.

JimR


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Posted: Mon Sep 20, 2010 9:10 am
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I have the volume at 6 or higher most of the time so the brightness doesn't bother me much... it's the bass that annoys me at higher volumes.

I would give the speaker some time to break in, I've recently gone through breaking in a couple of speakers for my DRRI and it's a big difference! I threw in a new Celestion Gold in there and it sounded way too harsh at first.

First place I would look for any tube rattle would be the rectifier, if it's a ruby throw it away asap! Mine rattled from day 1.

Do give the TS9 or 808 a try with the DRRI, you won't be disappointed.


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Posted: Mon Sep 20, 2010 11:56 am
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Well the STL Super Tube is a TS-9 variant (with an extra chip and some extra tone control). I'll surely test it again when I get the amp because it used to make the greatest SRV tone on the Blues Junior.

Jim


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Posted: Mon Sep 20, 2010 1:30 pm
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JimDane wrote:
Thanks, I think I will have him do that.

I took my setup into the local shop today to test overdrive stomp boxes and I tested the amp with a Digitech Hardwire CM2 Tube Overdrive and it sounded much better on the DRRI.

But - there was still a harsh edge to the sound of the upper strings, probably coming from a rattling tube. He will run through the tubes and find the offending one.

I think Iøm going to ask him to cut that bright cap too because I will be using the amp in the 3-4 voume range only.

I'll check in later with the results, I will surely buy that sweet CM-2 overdrive.

JimR
I dont know how you run your pots on your guitar,but when I use my od pedals they are usually between 5 and 7 .I use the cm-2 and the Tubescreamer.Both sound great at any volume.Good luck.


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Posted: Mon Sep 20, 2010 7:20 pm
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I use the visual sounds route 66 on mine and it sounds like pure sweet tone to me !

Ya I did some tube swapping too

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Posted: Fri Oct 08, 2010 2:42 pm
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A quick update:

Tried the amp through a Weber 12F50 and it really didn't do much difference but using a different overdrive in combination with a louder volume makes a big difference to the sound.

I bought an Emma Alberta with a really great creamy overdrive sound and played the amp at 4-5 on the vibrato channel. Now it's singing!

It seems that I should remove the bright cap on the vibrato channel, I would like to get the sound on lower volumes too.

The Alberta has a full and open sound like an even more creamy BluesBreaker pedal withouth the midrange hump of a Tube Screamer. Great for rhytm guitar sounds.

I tried adding my Ibanez Super Tube (Tube Screamer variant) in front of the Alberta. Those two overdrives in series make every note jump out and sing into fluid feedback, way cool!! I'll make a recording of it soon.

Jim


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Posted: Sat Oct 09, 2010 5:31 am
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Glad it worked out for you.I have had my drri for a year now and it took some time to break in the speaker.It is a great sounding amp.


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Posted: Mon Oct 11, 2010 5:10 am
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Hi i have 65 deluxe it has been great for over five years never let me down yet. i am going to get the cap job done soon when i get the amp a new set of tubes. i changed the pre amp tubes that seem to help to tame some of the treble harshnes. just great amps.Cheers from aus.


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