It is currently Tue Mar 17, 2020 4:30 am

All times are UTC - 7 hours



Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 26 posts ]  Go to page 1, 2  Next
Go to page 1, 2  Next
Author Message
Post subject: Blues Deluxe Reisuue Mods..
Posted: Fri Aug 13, 2010 7:40 am
Offline
Aspiring Musician
Aspiring Musician
User avatar

Joined: Mon Apr 21, 2008 1:37 am
Posts: 597
Location: Australia
Ok, Yesterday I completed final Mods that I am just simply impressed with.

why would I mod a new amp?
Because it's mine and I can do what ever I want to it :P
I can always change it back to the stock specs :idea:
Fender/Jensen/JJ's can only work well together :D
Finally, my fifth amp I will be picking up this monday will not be modded what so ever "Fender Pro Tube Twin Amp" :D :lol:
I think my Blues Deluxe is within the right spectrum to tinker with :wink:


Mod 1.
I swapped out all of the stock GT Tubes and replaced them with JJ's.

GT Tubes in my opinion are to harsh on the ears in the mids and high end and don't provide the clarity of note seperation that I am after.

Mod 2.
I Rebiased the amp to 91.3 MV.
I learnt how to do this from the Eurotubes Video. Thanks guy's.

Mod 3.
Changed out the stock Fender Eminence Speaker for a Jensen
JCH MOD 12/70.

I found this to be an interesting experience being my first ever speaker mod I have done and honestly my first ever amp I have opened up.

The Jensen specs are describe by Jensen as having tight lows, subdued Mids, bright Highs and an Edgy Overdrive.

The Jensen compared to the Eminence sounded compressed and well balanced and presented a lot more presence and very chimey.

At first I did not think too much into how the new speaker would stack up with my effects pedals but I learnt quite quickly that I had to back off on my Boss CS-3.

My Ears on this amp Now:

Now it really does sound like a Blues Deluxe should sound, they way I like it too sound.

Now the amp has more presence than what it had, I had no problems cutting through the mix of the band at rehearsal last night.
I recieved positive comments from the guy's in the band.

The JJ's combined with the Jensen have really made this a go to amp.

Please enjoy the photo's of before and after 8)

Image
Image
Image
Image


Last edited by kineman karma on Fri Aug 13, 2010 5:01 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Top
Profile
Fender Play Winter Sale 2020
Post subject:
Posted: Fri Aug 13, 2010 9:46 am
Offline
Rock Star
Rock Star

Joined: Mon Apr 05, 2010 2:37 pm
Posts: 8708
Location: Natural Bridge, Virginia
Specifically, which JJs did you use and who did you buy them from? Did you buy one of the tube sets from Eurotubes? If so, which one. I am planning on upgrading my BDRI tubes with a Eurotubes set but just haven't decided which one.

_________________
Bill

Image


Top
Profile
Post subject:
Posted: Fri Aug 13, 2010 10:15 am
Offline
Rock Star
Rock Star
User avatar

Joined: Tue Aug 07, 2007 2:19 pm
Posts: 8827
Not really mods as much as well needed tweaks. Nothing you did would void your warranty. Very nice choice of non destructive tweaks that will improve your amp a lot. Give the speaker some time to break in it will only get better. Congrats!

_________________
Life...... It's sexually transmitted and always fatal


Top
Profile
Post subject:
Posted: Fri Aug 13, 2010 11:54 am
Offline
Aspiring Musician
Aspiring Musician
User avatar

Joined: Sat May 08, 2010 4:31 am
Posts: 411
Location: France
Did you measure the bias voltage after 20mn ON ?

_________________
Tissan '52 Tele RI & Washburn Hawk 1980, Epiphone Casino MIK, Blues Deluxe RI & VOX ...


Top
Profile
Post subject:
Posted: Fri Aug 13, 2010 11:58 am
Offline
Hobbyist
Hobbyist

Joined: Wed Mar 24, 2010 9:06 am
Posts: 19
I hope it sounds good for you. I like your tweaks. I did similar mods on my BDR. I ditched the GT tubes for a set of NOS 6L6 and NOS 12AX7's (2) and a NOS 12AU7 PI (all from a 1958 organ, all test new), a Celestion Gold, and re-biased to 87 mV and I am very pleased with the results.

Although these amps get ragged on a lot here on the forum, it sounds great and I have had no issues with mine.


Top
Profile
Post subject:
Posted: Fri Aug 13, 2010 2:34 pm
Offline
Roadie
Roadie

Joined: Sat Mar 21, 2009 8:02 am
Posts: 293
jensens and fenders work well together. i put a p12n in mine. love it. it gets better every day.


Top
Profile
Post subject:
Posted: Fri Aug 13, 2010 5:24 pm
Offline
Aspiring Musician
Aspiring Musician
User avatar

Joined: Mon Apr 21, 2008 1:37 am
Posts: 597
Location: Australia
Thanks peoples... :D

Hi Blackstrat71, Mate I have a P12N on order for which I was going to put into my Blues Junior, I may just give it a test drive in the Blues Deluxe but for now I am loving the BDRI as it is.

Hey Strat Dog can I ask a dumb question, what are NOS tubes? It sounds like your on top of your tone. Isn't it great.

Tissan, Mate thanks for that. I did recheck the bias after 1 hour of playing and for some reason it did rise a bit. I just turned it back a bit.

HI 63 supro, Thank you very much sir. You have answered my question of voiding warranty in relation to my speaker change. This is why I value your experience because I thought it was just the tube change that doesn't void your warranty. It's great to know that I can run different tubes and speakers when ever I feel like it. :D I look forward to breaking in the Jensen.

Hello Bluesky636, Mate for the two power tubes I used 2x JJ Tesla 6l6GC's and for the preamp tubes I used 3x JJ Tesla ECC83S.

I did not buy a retube kit from Eurotubes, I picked up these from a local store. So I didn't have to wait.

I can thank again 63supro for recommending the JJ's to me. I will never go back to GT's.

Prior to using the JJ's I used to get a tinitus ringing noise in my ears and my ears felt like they were bleeding. No this had nothing to do with my volume levels but purely the ice pick GT's cutting my ears off.

After installing JJ's I can play at any volume level and once I have finished jamming, I don't have bleeding ears anymore.

Hey nobody has picked up on the cage not being on the amp around the power tubes. Reason the cage did not go back on because the JJ's are a bigger tube than the GT's.

Thanks Again.


Top
Profile
Post subject:
Posted: Fri Aug 13, 2010 5:28 pm
Offline
Rock Star
Rock Star

Joined: Mon Apr 05, 2010 2:37 pm
Posts: 8708
Location: Natural Bridge, Virginia
kineman karma wrote:
Hello Bluesky636, Mate for the two power tubes I used 2x JJ Tesla 6l6GC's and for the preamp tubes I used 3x JJ Tesla ECC83S.

I did not buy a retube kit from Eurotubes, I picked up these from a local store. So I didn't have to wait.

Hey nobody has picked up on the cage not being on the amp around the power tubes. Reason the cage did not go back on because the JJ's are a bigger tube than the GT's.

Thanks Again.


Great. That is the info I was looking for. I do not have a good local source, so I will be buying from Eurotubes. :)

I tossed my tube cage shortly after I got my amp as it was ringing on certain notes. Besides, it looks cooler without it. 8)

_________________
Bill

Image


Top
Profile
Post subject: Re: Blues Deluxe Reisuue Mods..
Posted: Sat Sep 25, 2010 10:41 pm
Offline
Rock Icon
Rock Icon
User avatar

Joined: Tue Jun 29, 2010 1:20 pm
Posts: 9640
Location: Indiana
kineman karma wrote:
Ok, Yesterday I completed final Mods that I am just simply impressed with.....

Mod 1.
I swapped out all of the stock GT Tubes and replaced them with JJ's.

GT Tubes in my opinion are to harsh on the ears in the mids and high end and don't provide the clarity of note seperation that I am after.

Mod 2.
I Rebiased the amp to 91.3 MV....


That's great, I also love to mod/tweak new amps. Sounds/looks like you did a great job. I was just really curious as to why you thought the sound of the GTs were "harsh" so you changed to JJs, yet you rebiased the JJs much hotter than the GTs were running (91.3 mV = 40 mA plate current per tube on the JJs)? Weren't the GTs biased cold then (68 mV = 29 mA or so plate current)? Have you tried the GTs with a hotter bias? Cold bias = harsh sound. It seems to me that changing to JJ tubes is more about being fashionable than any real sound improvement, as everyone also increases the bias on the JJs. :)

_________________
---> "The amp should be SWITCHED OFF AND UNPLUGGED before you do this!" <---

Por favor, disculpe mi español, no se llega a la práctica con mucha frecuencia.


Top
Profile
Post subject: Re: Blues Deluxe Reisuue Mods..
Posted: Sun Sep 26, 2010 12:20 am
Offline
Aspiring Musician
Aspiring Musician
User avatar

Joined: Mon Apr 21, 2008 1:37 am
Posts: 597
Location: Australia
shimmilou wrote:
kineman karma wrote:
Ok, Yesterday I completed final Mods that I am just simply impressed with.....

Mod 1.
I swapped out all of the stock GT Tubes and replaced them with JJ's.

GT Tubes in my opinion are to harsh on the ears in the mids and high end and don't provide the clarity of note seperation that I am after.

Mod 2.
I Rebiased the amp to 91.3 MV....


That's great, I also love to mod/tweak new amps. Sounds/looks like you did a great job. I was just really curious as to why you thought the sound of the GTs were "harsh" so you changed to JJs, yet you rebiased the JJs much hotter than the GTs were running (91.3 mV = 40 mA plate current per tube on the JJs)? Weren't the GTs biased cold then (68 mV = 29 mA or so plate current)? Have you tried the GTs with a hotter bias? Cold bias = harsh sound. It seems to me that changing to JJ tubes is more about being fashionable than any real sound improvement, as everyone also increases the bias on the JJs. :)


Hi Shimmilou, Good Point I must admit that I didn't even think to have a go at rebiasing the Gt's hotter.

The first time I ever experienced the tonal change between the GT's and JJ's was when I did a swap out of the 2x el84's and 3x 12ax7 tubes in my Blues Junior.

After swapping over to JJ's I immediately heard the tone change and I I could increase the treble pot without cutting my ears off.

The JJ's gave me more clarity and my ears were not killing me after a jam.

This may sound odd, but I don't get sore ears no more, I was not driving the amp that loud... it must of been the level of high frequency or some crapp like that.

for Blues Junior to this date since the tube swap out I have not biaised the amp at all... to be truthfull I don't know how to do the BJ's. It is still going strong and has still maintained it's tonal character of the JJ's.

Now in relation to my mods on my BDRI I am running it quite hot to get that nice natural break up assisted by a small dose of the TS-9. I like to hear the natural sound of the amp as much as I can.

My friend I truly believe that swapping out the gt's in a lower end Fender amp is a bonus if it is an improvement..

lol I have not even touched my new Twin Amp... No way I am modding or changing the tubes out in that baby.

As someone else described in another forum, the Corona made amps vs the Mexican made are of high quality tubes that are picked for that purpose as opposed to the other lower class amps.

I hope I haven't dribbled too much :oops: and told you what you know.

You got me toying with the idea of running my bias hotter on my 410 HRD which still has it's factory tubes blue GT's... Any suggestions as to how hot I should run it ?.

Just my thoughts. :wink:


Top
Profile
Post subject: Re: Blues Deluxe Reisuue Mods..
Posted: Sun Sep 26, 2010 3:53 am
Offline
Rock Star
Rock Star

Joined: Mon Apr 05, 2010 2:37 pm
Posts: 8708
Location: Natural Bridge, Virginia
shimmilou wrote:
kineman karma wrote:
Ok, Yesterday I completed final Mods that I am just simply impressed with.....

Mod 1.
I swapped out all of the stock GT Tubes and replaced them with JJ's.

GT Tubes in my opinion are to harsh on the ears in the mids and high end and don't provide the clarity of note seperation that I am after.

Mod 2.
I Rebiased the amp to 91.3 MV....


That's great, I also love to mod/tweak new amps. Sounds/looks like you did a great job. I was just really curious as to why you thought the sound of the GTs were "harsh" so you changed to JJs, yet you rebiased the JJs much hotter than the GTs were running (91.3 mV = 40 mA plate current per tube on the JJs)? Weren't the GTs biased cold then (68 mV = 29 mA or so plate current)? Have you tried the GTs with a hotter bias? Cold bias = harsh sound. It seems to me that changing to JJ tubes is more about being fashionable than any real sound improvement, as everyone also increases the bias on the JJs. :)


Hey, shimmilou.

I read kineman karma's rather lengthy response to your question and I concur with his assertion that switching from the stock GTs to a full set of JJs results in a smoother and less ice picky sounding BDRI. I have the same basic tube configuration in my BDRI as kk does (with the exception that I have an ECC81 (12AT7) in V2 vice an ECC83S (12AX7)).

With regard to bias, I am running the JJ 6L6GCs at 38 mA per tube (83 mV at the Fender test point) with a plate voltage of about 408 volts. I prefer a cleaner sound, using a modded Boss BD-2 for dirt. Besides, I don't play professionally like kk does, I just play for myself and play quieter in my studio. The BDRI with the JJ tube set has a great clean sound. I experimented with bias using the stock GT 6L6s (actually Sovteck 5881WXTs) varying the bias (at the Fender test point) between the factory setting of 65 mV and 80 mV. I found the GTs sounded best at about 70 mV. They seemed to become quite harsh when you got over 75 mV. Plus, I found several sources that recommended not running the stock GTs above 70 to 75 mV. I think the JJs really do like being biased hotter than the GTs are capable of being run.

Bottom line, for me, I found the JJs to sound so much better than the stock GTs, that even the stock Eminence speaker sounds better and I have put off replacing the speaker until next year, probably. I am looking at using either an Eminence Cannibus Rex, or a Weber (can't remember the exact model off hand) that the Weber folk recommended.

Well, I guess my response was just a long as kk's, maybe even longer. I just spaced everything closer. :lol:

_________________
Bill

Image


Top
Profile
Post subject: Re: Blues Deluxe Reisuue Mods..
Posted: Sun Sep 26, 2010 4:11 am
Offline
Aspiring Musician
Aspiring Musician
User avatar

Joined: Mon Apr 21, 2008 1:37 am
Posts: 597
Location: Australia
bluesky636 wrote:
shimmilou wrote:
kineman karma wrote:
Ok, Yesterday I completed final Mods that I am just simply impressed with.....

Mod 1.
I swapped out all of the stock GT Tubes and replaced them with JJ's.

GT Tubes in my opinion are to harsh on the ears in the mids and high end and don't provide the clarity of note seperation that I am after.

Mod 2.
I Rebiased the amp to 91.3 MV....


That's great, I also love to mod/tweak new amps. Sounds/looks like you did a great job. I was just really curious as to why you thought the sound of the GTs were "harsh" so you changed to JJs, yet you rebiased the JJs much hotter than the GTs were running (91.3 mV = 40 mA plate current per tube on the JJs)? Weren't the GTs biased cold then (68 mV = 29 mA or so plate current)? Have you tried the GTs with a hotter bias? Cold bias = harsh sound. It seems to me that changing to JJ tubes is more about being fashionable than any real sound improvement, as everyone also increases the bias on the JJs. :)


Hey, shimmilou.

I read kineman karma's rather lengthy response to your question and I concur with his assertion that switching from the stock GTs to a full set of JJs results in a smoother and less ice picky sounding BDRI. I have the same basic tube configuration in my BDRI as kk does (with the exception that I have an ECC81 (12AT7) in V2 vice an ECC83S (12AX7)).

With regard to bias, I am running the JJ 6L6GCs at 38 mA per tube (83 mV at the Fender test point) with a plate voltage of about 408 volts. I prefer a cleaner sound, using a modded Boss BD-2 for dirt. Besides, I don't play professionally like kk does, I just play for myself and play quieter in my studio. The BDRI with the JJ tube set has a great clean sound. I experimented with bias using the stock GT 6L6s (actually Sovteck 5881WXTs) varying the bias (at the Fender test point) between the factory setting of 65 mV and 80 mV. I found the GTs sounded best at about 70 mV. They seemed to become quite harsh when you got over 75 mV. Plus, I found several sources that recommended not running the stock GTs above 70 to 75 mV. I think the JJs really do like being biased hotter than the GTs are capable of being run.

Bottom line, for me, I found the JJs to sound so much better than the stock GTs, that even the stock Eminence speaker sounds better and I have put off replacing the speaker until next year, probably. I am looking at using either an Eminence Cannibus Rex, or a Weber (can't remember the exact model off hand) that the Weber folk recommended.

Well, I guess my response was just a long as kk's, maybe even longer. I just spaced everything closer. :lol:


lol good one Bill.... :lol:


Top
Profile
Post subject:
Posted: Sun Sep 26, 2010 6:06 am
Offline
Rock Icon
Rock Icon
User avatar

Joined: Fri Feb 05, 2010 4:31 am
Posts: 14050
Location: Province de Québec, Canada
This video is of a Fender Deluxe Reissue and we are setting a pair of the JJ 6V6's at about 25mA using a bias probe. You can see the bias trim access hole in the video and it looks just like a 1/4" input jack down behind the chock

from Eurotube bias video

_____________________

My question is what is where do you read the bias should be 91.3 MV ?

Kineman write :
Mod 2.
I Rebiased the amp to 91.3 MV.
I learnt how to do this from the Eurotubes Video. Thanks guy

________________________

MV = Millivolts is no use for bias. It should be MA = Milliamps

If you bias at 91 MA is a way too hot : Your tubes will be dammaged

Average bias for 6L6 at 425 volts is close to 42 MA


Top
Profile
Post subject:
Posted: Sun Sep 26, 2010 6:55 am
Offline
Rock Star
Rock Star

Joined: Mon Apr 05, 2010 2:37 pm
Posts: 8708
Location: Natural Bridge, Virginia
stratele52 wrote:
This video is of a Fender Deluxe Reissue and we are setting a pair of the JJ 6V6's at about 25mA using a bias probe. You can see the bias trim access hole in the video and it looks just like a 1/4" input jack down behind the chock

from Eurotube bias video


You are looking at the wrong biasing video. Both KK and I have Blues Deluxe Reissues. A different animal from the Fender Deluxe. The video you should look at is this one:

http://www.eurotubes.com/euro-Fender-HRDV.htm

It is for a Hot Rod Deville, but is applicable to the Hot Rod Deluxe, Blues Deluxe Reissue, and Blues Deville Reissue.

stratele52 wrote:
My question is what is where do you read the bias should be 91.3 MV ?

Kineman write :
Mod 2.
I Rebiased the amp to 91.3 MV.
I learnt how to do this from the Eurotubes Video. Thanks guy


The four amplifiers mentioned above each have a 1 ohm resistor in the cathode circuits of the power tubes which measures the cathode current (including grid current) of both 6L6s together. Since I = E/R, 1 mV divided by 1 ohm equals 1 mA. Hence 91.3 mV equals 91.3 mA. However, the Fender 1 ohm resistor is a 5% tolerance resistor and may be off somewhat (plus grid current is included in the measurement). My bias probe uses a 1 ohm, 1% tolerance resistor which measure cathode current (including grid current) of each tube individually and is thus more accurate.

stratele52 wrote:
MV = Millivolts is no use for bias. It should be MA = Milliamps

If you bias at 91 MA is a way too hot : Your tubes will be dammaged

Average bias for 6L6 at 425 volts is close to 42 MA


Again, as above, 91 mA is for the cathode current of both tubes combined through a 1 ohm, 5% tolerance reistor and includes combined grid current. Thus, kk's bias is set at about 45 mA cathode current (including the contribution of grid current) per tube. I don't think he has ever rmentioned the plate voltage, but even at 425 v that is a safe bias (P=IE, 45 mA x 425 = 19 watts which is about 65% of the JJ 6L6GC rated power of 30 watts). I have mine set at about 38 mA cathode current per tube (including the contribution of grid curent, as measured by my bias probe) at 408 v plate voltage which is about 52% of rated power.

Hope that clarifies things for you. :D

_________________
Bill

Image


Top
Profile
Post subject:
Posted: Sun Sep 26, 2010 8:22 am
Offline
Rock Icon
Rock Icon
User avatar

Joined: Tue Jun 29, 2010 1:20 pm
Posts: 9640
Location: Indiana
Thanks kineman karma, bluesky636, and stratele52! I have only bought 3 JJ tubes ever, 1-6V6 S for my C600, and 1-matched pair of 6L6s to try in my HRDlx. The JJ 6V6 was only used briefly in the C600 (1-2 hrs total), I put the original back as I thought that the JJ was too bright in this instance. Then when I modified the amp I put the JJ back in and it started causing its own feedback, which I stopped by touching the tube. I guess that some tube dampeners will take care of that. The JJ "matched pair" of 6L6s were running about 5 mA difference in the HRDlx, I sent them back and got GT replacements which were running within 1 mA of each other. To be fair, I've even sent back "premium" tubes because of mismatched plate current. I have only ever sent back 1 GT tube, a 12AT7 that was horribly microphonic right out of the box.

I know that it would be wrong of me to conclude that the GTs are "better" than JJs based on this small sample size, but I see the same thing happen when others change to JJs and claim that they are better based on a skewed comparison (ie GTs sound harsh, but JJs sound better, even though the bias is way different between the two sets).

stratele52, I have gotten used to the mV vs mA discussions. We are all really talking about the same thing, just measuring a little different way. :) Just remember that mV measured at the Fender test point can be directly translated to mA. The test point is cathode current, which is always higher than plate current by about 10 mA for two tubes (5 mA per tube). I just do the translation in my head, kind of like translating French to English :lol: So it's all good. :)

Thanks guys, for taking the time to share your results, and your honest answers. I will do further testing, because the JJs are cheaper than GTs, and I want to get on the JJ fashion train myself. :lol: :D

Edit: Forgot about the BJr. That amps is biased so overly hot that it will eat any tubes that you put in it. I guess that the JJs sound much better as they are melting compared to the sound of the GTs melting. :lol: :lol: But, I ended up using a set of 7189s for the BJr. With the same bias for the 7189s and the GT EL84 Ss, I preferred the 7189s. :o

_________________
---> "The amp should be SWITCHED OFF AND UNPLUGGED before you do this!" <---

Por favor, disculpe mi español, no se llega a la práctica con mucha frecuencia.


Top
Profile
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 26 posts ]  Go to page 1, 2  Next
Go to page 1, 2  Next

All times are UTC - 7 hours

Fender Play Winter Sale 2020

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 2 guests


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum

Search for:
Jump to: