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Post subject: What are good replacement tubes for HRD?
Posted: Wed Jul 21, 2010 7:40 am
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I've owned a hotrod deluxe for about 3 years now and never once replaced the tubes. Its really starting to affect the tone quality... I don't know much about tubes because i've never bought any. I know they can have fairly drastic changes on your tone though...

What are some good tubes to replace mine with?

-I play wide range from classic rock, hendrix-style blues, zep, etc...to newer rock like brand new, mars volta, pearl jam, etc..

-I've heard Sovtek 5881 are pretty good?

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Post subject: Re: What are good replacement tubes for HRD?
Posted: Wed Jul 21, 2010 7:59 am
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rubyinthedust88 wrote:
I've owned a hotrod deluxe for about 3 years now and never once replaced the tubes. Its really starting to affect the tone quality... I don't know much about tubes because i've never bought any. I know they can have fairly drastic changes on your tone though...

What are some good tubes to replace mine with?

-I play wide range from classic rock, hendrix-style blues, zep, etc...to newer rock like brand new, mars volta, pearl jam, etc..

-I've heard Sovtek 5881 are pretty good?


Good Morning Mate...

Well I just returned home from a gig and I used my HRD 410...first gig with it's new JJ Tesla tubes.

Well I will say that they are the best tubes I have heard so far....Awesome to cover the music you have described..

Cheers :wink:


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Posted: Wed Jul 21, 2010 10:40 am
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The 5881's IMO are horrible. If you go 5881's I'd go NOS. My HRDlx came with them branded as GT's. They perfected the icepick in the forehead tone. :wink: I replace the with JJ's.

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Post subject: Tube replacement
Posted: Wed Jul 21, 2010 11:47 am
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Everyone that sells their own "Brand name" tubes, gets them from one or more of only about five tube manufacturers in the world. Russia, China, Germany and Slovak Republic, all manufacture tubes. Fender, JJ, EH, Mesa Boogie, (insert your favorite brand), ALL put their name (relabel) on the tubes. None of the resellers make their own tubes.

The Groove Tubes that came in the amp are likely Russian (Sovtek) tubes, which are some of the best out there. For the Blues jr, the EL 84 Groove tubes are the EXACT same tubes that JJ uses. I get a kick out of it when people say that JJs sound better in their BJr than the Groove Tubes.

What the resellers do give you though, are "tested" tubes that must meet their requirements in order to put their name on them (relabel). Probably the most thoroughly tested tubes are Mesa Boogie. Mesa Boogie uses tubes from just about all of the few manufacturers around the world, tests them and then label them if they pass.

Groove Tubes, to me, are a little pricey, but I like to stick with them myself. Just about any brand name tube will be good, just make sure that the filament (heater) current draw in the tube is similar to the ones you are replacing, and bias each brand of tube correctly, and you should be good. Did I say that I prefer Groove tubes? Oh yeah, I did mention that. :D


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Posted: Wed Jul 21, 2010 12:03 pm
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ruby,

This is one place to start when looking for tubes. They have reviews of the tubes and prepackaged suggested value and optimal choice tubees specifically for your amp.

http://thetubestore.com/fenderhotrod.html

You can do a search for ther tube sellers and get all kind of reviews.

shimmilou would have been correct about 10 years ago.

Because of the high demand for tubes, mainly by instrument manufacterers, tube manufacturers have continued to increase production and new tubes are built to strict specifictions and there is difference. You can find all this information on the interweb if you have the time to do the reading and searching.

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Post subject:
Posted: Wed Jul 21, 2010 12:03 pm
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Audio tube factory of New Sensor Inc.; Tubes are marketed as Sovtek, Electro Harmonix, Tung-Sol, Mullard, Genalex Gold Lion and also Svetlana S-marked in USA.
Known formerly as tube factory of JSC Reflektor.

anyways,,,

i like EH tubes for a good tube at decent price - they seemed to spice my twin~amp up a bit

boiaudioworks.com has a great site, wiht info about tubes. they always keep me happy.

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Posted: Wed Jul 21, 2010 1:13 pm
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JJ/Tesla ARE a tube manufacturer.

http://www.eurotubes.com/euro-d.htm

Mine were Sovtek and sounded like arse no matter where you biased them. They were brittle and sterile sounding. Sovtek do make some nice tubes but the 5881's aren't one of them.

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Post subject: Tube comparison
Posted: Wed Jul 21, 2010 3:21 pm
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63supro wrote:
JJ/Tesla ARE a tube manufacturer.


Oh, sorry! Looks like in my post that I lumped them in as a reseller, my bad, thanks 63supro. :) More clearly, resellers do not make their own tubes. Did I miss any others?

So, right after my previous post, UPS delivered my new tubes from http://thetubestore.com/ I got a JJ6V6S and an EH 6V6GT and started a comparison using my Champion 600 as a test bed. I let each tube warm up for five minutes before playing and the volume was at twelve for all tests. I played each for about ten minutes, trying all five pickup selector switch positions. I used a modified Road Worn 60s for the guitar. There is nothing tangible about my test, it involves my opinion and not much else.

First, I have an aversion to most Chinese products (various reasons) so I was biased against the Chinese tube that came in my.....Chinese amp....? I fully expected the JJ or EH to blow me away with a tone increase. The comparison didn't go as I expected. I didn't bother checking the bias on any of the tubes (yet), because many people simply swap the tube and play and I wanted more of a "real world" comparison. I believe that the bias for each tube is within reasonable limits for a good comparison.

The JJ was first in the test. The JJ tube had a noticeably brighter and cleaner sound than the Chinese tube, but the JJ was not as loud and the breakup was more trashy sounding (for rock, trashy might be better). The JJ also had less low-end, but I'm using a 6 inch speaker so that was OK. I liked the tone of the JJ, but the difference wasn't so big that I would recommend it over another. But, that's just it, does different mean better? Your ears are the guide.

Next The EH. The EH also was brighter and cleaner than the Chinese tube, also not as much low-end and not as loud. The breakup was smoother and warmer than the JJ and very similar to, but not as warm as, the breakup of the Chinese tube. Again, my ears, as worn as they are. ;)

Finally I put the Chinese tube back in and noticed that it was louder and warmer than both the JJ and EH. The breakup on the Chinese tube was probably the best sounding to me, very warm and smooth, almost muddy. But the differences in all of the tubes weren't huge, just definitely noticeable. Which is better? The answer is subjective. I would have to ask who has the best ears? (63supro?) :P :mrgreen: <--- (I mean that as I'm envious!) Of the three, in this case I'm sticking with the "no name" Chines tube which I didn't think that I liked to begin with.

So what does this all mean? I would hope that everyone realizes that my anecdotal evidence is only valid to me and shouldn't suggest which tube that anyone else may prefer. Also, this is just one test, on one type of tube with a small number of tubes used for comparison on a small amp. I don't feel that blanket statements about any brand name are fair. I would also like to see others do a similar comparison on other amps, the HRDlx especially, since I own one (it would cost more to buy pairs of each tube brand). But to be more fair all of the tubes should be about the same age and have about the same number of hours if not brand new. In my test, the Chinese tube had many hours on it already, whereas the other tubes were brand new. 8)


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Post subject:
Posted: Thu Jul 22, 2010 4:18 am
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It is all subjective. I found a pretty big difference with my 74 SF Champ when I replaced the 36 year old RCA 6V6 that was rattling with a JJ. The RCA was better to my ears and the tone was a bit more complex. It's hard to play on others recordings with a rattling tube so the JJ stays until I get around to getting another NOS RCA 6V6. Could be the age of the tube without a doubt. I never found the Chinese power tubes to be reliable or consistent. Some sound good, some don't. Maybe they need to measure the cancer causing stuff in them more carefully. There's a lot of nasty stuff in a vacuum tube. That's why they are no longer manufactured in the US. The EPA and OSHA killed the industry making it no longer profitable to manufacture here.

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Post subject:
Posted: Thu Jul 22, 2010 8:00 am
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Here is my report on recent tube changes in 2 different amps. I have an SCXD and I replaced the tubes in mine. I know the 12AX7 is not a pre-amp tube and has zero impact on tone. I 've played it for 2 years and it was making some noises at a recent outdoor gig with high heat. I replaced the tubes in it with JJs. The stock power tubes were Electro-Harmonix. I did not notice any dramatic changes in the amp. It was a little louder with a little more head room. I have not adjusted the bias yet, but plan to soon. This is my gigging amp and I am completely happy with it but I was expecting a more dramatic change in the sound of the amp.

The second amp with a tube change was my friends Traynor YCV40WR. He has been plyaing that out and at rehearsals for a little over 3 years and it seemed like he has been having some noise and tone issues with it lately. The stock tubes were Sovteks and he replaced them with Tung-Sols in all locations. There was a very dramatic improvement in the sound of his amp. The treble was cleaner and crisper and the mids were just clearer. The lows were more pronounced without being too deep or muddy. We are pretty sure he had a tube problem with the originals.

I have a Traynor YCV50 Blue that I am now considering changing tubes in that. I have heard more and more from other ownerrs of the Blue that they notice positive improvements in their amps after upgrding the tubes.

I got my tubes from thetubestore.com. I am not sure where my friend purchased his tubes. It was one of the online vendors. He called them and these were the tubes they recommended but he bought them a couple years ago. He is not a person to spend much time fiddiling with equipment. I am very much willing to experiment to a fault.

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Post subject: Tubes
Posted: Thu Jul 22, 2010 8:20 am
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Yes, jgauker and 63supro both made an interesting point that I meant to include in my earlier post. If the tubes that you have to begin with are "bad" or maybe old or worn out, and you replace them with a different brand, you could get the impression that the new brand is better than the old brand. :)


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Post subject: NOS
Posted: Thu Jul 22, 2010 8:41 am
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63supro wrote:
....NOS RCA 6V6...


I often wondered if the US made NOS tubes were worth the extra $. I am with you about the Chinese tubes most of the time. I like to buy US made when I can, but an inexpensive NOS US tube can go for $70+ for one tube! :o I really want your opinion on the NOS US made tubes. Do you think that they are worth the extra bucks? Thanks.


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Post subject:
Posted: Thu Jul 22, 2010 10:01 am
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Contact Mike at KCA NOS Tubes and tell him what amp you're using and what sound you're after, he'll be able to make some suggestions. I've used him before and he was very helpfull.

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Post subject:
Posted: Fri Jul 23, 2010 4:39 am
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What is Breakup? Am I right in assuming it's the residual sound after a strum, as the strings gradually stop moving?


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Post subject:
Posted: Fri Jul 23, 2010 5:16 am
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No, breakup in tube amps is distortion. It varies widely between amps. A low wattage amp like a Fender Champ amp will distort much earlier than say a Deluxe Reverb. Some of it due to the Champs Class "A" Design some due to it's low wattage. The undistorted sound is called "Headroom" . That will also vary because the higher the wattage the amp, the harder it is to get it to distort or breakup. A Twin or Super Reverb will stay clean much longer than a DR or a Champ. This changes with the amp design too. Multi channel amps can have a "dirty" or "drive" channel. But the basic breakup/headroom thing is still in the clean channel. Sounds a little confusing huh? I'm trying to describe it in it's simplest terms. Sorry if I get off track. I tend to do that, I'm a geezer, it's what we do. LOL

The thing is, when you turn up a tube amp past the headroom into breakup territory, that's where all the fun starts. The problem is not going deaf in the process. That's where booster pedals and overdrive pedals can help. Tubes are voltage devices.

Solid State amps are a different story. They are current devices. When you drive them to clipping or distortion, they usually sound pretty harsh. There are some exceptions. Peavey's Trans Tube Series aren't so bad, but many are pretty nasty to my ears when pushed and need pedals for distortion YMMV.

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