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Post subject: Anyone try the Tung-sol 12AX7 RI or Groove Tube 5751M yet ?
Posted: Mon Jun 14, 2010 1:33 pm
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The tung-sol reissue 12AX7's get pretty good reviews.

Have yet to find too much on the 5751M by groove tube yet.

I'm working on tweeking a 59 bassman LTD.

I have a NOS 5u4G rectifier tube coming and a set of RI 5881 Tung-sols

A pair (so far) of weber 10" alnicos for the bottom of the cabinet, not sure whats going in the top yet.

The tone chase is on !!!

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Posted: Mon Jun 14, 2010 1:38 pm
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If it were my amp I would not be running a 5U4G as a rectifier. YMMV though.

Arjay

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Posted: Mon Jun 14, 2010 2:44 pm
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I wouldn't be running GT's either. I use a NOS JAN Phillips 5751 in my Egnater and it only cost about 4 bucks more than the GT 5751M. IMO they just built them better way back for the military. YMMV

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Posted: Mon Jun 14, 2010 4:43 pm
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No problem at all running a 5u4g in the 59 bassman
so why would you say that ?

I know all about the other tubes out there, just wondering if anyone tried either of those offerings.

The groove tube 5751M has recieved some great reviews from builders out there and well Tung-sol reissue stuff has too.

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Posted: Mon Jun 14, 2010 5:44 pm
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They sound pretty good for Sovteks. Less gain than the EH12AX7's but smooth, without the icepick in the ear sound. My buddy used to run them in his Marshall TSL-122. I have since retubed his amp with all JJ's. He went off and forgot the box of his used Tung-Sol branded Sovteks. That was 3 weeks ago...


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Posted: Mon Jun 14, 2010 6:58 pm
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blues bondsman wrote:
No problem at all running a 5u4g in the 59 bassman
so why would you say that ?


Because I know what my RCA Receiving Tube Manual tells me.

Ever take the time to read one?

Good luck to you, sir.

Arjay

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Posted: Mon Jun 14, 2010 7:01 pm
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Very ineresting RJ, didn't know the new Tung sols were Sovtek tubes. Art

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Posted: Mon Jun 14, 2010 7:18 pm
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Mike Matthews New Sensor company acquired the name and rights. Tung-Sol reissue tubes are made in the same Reflektor factory in Saratov, Russia. Along with Mullard reissues, Gold Lion, Sovtek, EH, etc.


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Posted: Mon Jun 14, 2010 7:32 pm
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Good info man ! Do you happen to know if these brands are all different models or series of the Reflecktor tubes? Art

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Post subject:
Posted: Mon Jun 14, 2010 7:41 pm
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The 5u4G has been used in many a 59 bassman RI, I still don't know exactly why you say its not safe to use ???

It will drop the voltage down to a level where 5881 power tubes will be safe to operate (under 400 volts) and drop the amps output to around 43 watts + or- a few

Its been done for years and I have never heard of it causing any problems.

I'm going to give the tung-sol RI 12AX7's a try, the 6V6GT's I used in my 65 Deluxe Reverb were sooooo sweet !!!!

I do think the quality from Tung-sol RI stuff is getting to the point were NOS stuff is just not necessary, I have a whole drawer full of USA 12AX7's
and a few 5751's too, I just can't help trying the new stuff.

Kinda like the G/T 6L6GE tubes, are they still made in the USA after Fender bought G/T ????

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Post subject:
Posted: Mon Jun 14, 2010 8:09 pm
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They very a little bit. You can compare a EH12AX7 to a Tung-Sol 12AX7 and they are almost identical, except for the mica spacers.


Last edited by rjake on Mon Jun 14, 2010 8:36 pm, edited 2 times in total.

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Post subject:
Posted: Mon Jun 14, 2010 8:19 pm
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I'd be careful. Arjay's been around for a long time and knows Fender amps inside out. I trust his reasoning and information. If I remember correctly, A 5U4G draws substantially more filament current than a 5AR4 and could possibly smoke a power transformer in an amp designed for 5AR4's although one would hope the manufacturer would over spec the transformer to accommodate either tube. The 1.1A of additional current would tax the transformer to the tune of about 5.5 Watts. I wouldn't advise putting a 5U4G in vintage amps BF, Tweed, Marshall that call for a 5AR4. I would at a minimum check the bias. Maybe the Reissue power transformer is overspec'd, maybe not, I'm not sure. It's your amp, so do what you want. I would trust the RCA Receiving Tube Manual. It's kind of like the tube bible.


The price is so close with the NOS 5751 preamp tubes to current production samples, there's no reason to go with a new production tube. Groove Tubes is a sorting/grading house, not a tube manufacturer. They re-label other manufacturers tubes. They only manufactured tubes for a very short time. JJ/Tesla manufacturers it own tubes. I've never had a GT that either sounded good to me, short out or rattle. If I didn't bias them cold, they wouldn't hold up. YMMV

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Post subject:
Posted: Mon Jun 14, 2010 10:04 pm
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blues bondsman wrote:
The 5u4G has been used in many a 59 bassman RI, I still don't know exactly why you say its not safe to use ???


I don't think it's unsafe. However the peak plate-to-plate current is substantially higher (1.0A vs 825mA) in the 5U4GB/C. In practical terms, this may contribute to decreased tube life for the other bottles in the amp. As long as you're aware of this and perform the required periodic checks and servicing, you'll probably have no problems. I'm just a stickler for reliability and durability (like a lotta the old farts here).

:mrgreen:

Arjay

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Post subject:
Posted: Tue Jun 15, 2010 6:00 am
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The RCA tube manual that I have is one I dug out of a tube caddy when I bought the remaining stock of a local radio/tv repair shop...it's dogear'd and grungy...cool....most people have never peaked inside one,they take what Martian calls,infallible web dogma...or something like that.
Sure you can substitute tubes and they sound okay but lots more going on inside those cool little bottles than meets the eye...and inside amp circuitry.


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Post subject:
Posted: Tue Jun 15, 2010 7:19 am
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Well fellas your dead right i'm not an electrical engineer, One of my buddies is.

I have just about every publication (read real book) you can own about tube amps and have indeed read countless articles online.

and so, The overwhelming consensus is that the 5u4g is safe and a great way to drop the voltage enough to safely run 5881 tubes to lower the output wattage and get more better tone !!!

As long as its safe, its all about tone for me.

The 5AR4 and the cheap 6L6 tubes stock in a 59 bassman just don't sound good to me.

I am still a little leary of trying the 12AY7 in v-1 due to the 1/4 watt resistors.

any educated guess on if that would be a real problem ???

Thanks for the input from ALL of you, Hey if I'm wrong by all means please keep me from burning down the house !!!!
again I'm a Bail Agent not an engineer.

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