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Post subject: Taming a Custom Vibrolux Reverb
Posted: Fri May 21, 2010 12:27 pm
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So I've been enjoying my new CVR. I haven't really found the hiss to be a problem, the amp is actually pretty quiet, but I am considering the Moyer mods to boost the reverb strength and, especially, to increase clean headroom and bring the amp closer to the '63 Vibroverb RI upon which it is based.

Currently the amp breaks up around 3.5, slightly less if I hit my guitar hard. I'd definitely like more use-able cleans. However, I don't have the experience to do the mods myself and I can't really afford to take it to a tech right now, so that'll have to wait a little while.

So, in the meantime does anyone have any experience with these amps and coaxing out a little more headroom? I'd like to get it up to 4.5 before it breaks. Any kind of tube swaps in the preamp that could help? A 12at7 PI? Some have said that helps, others have said the amp was biased for a 12ax7 phase inverter so a 12at7 wouldn't really do anything. Something else in V1? New speakers?

Lastly, does anyone have any experience with the Fromel mod kits for this amp? They claim to increase headroom and eliminate noise... How do they accomplish this? Similar to the Moyer mods? I ask because the kits are pretty inexpensive ($40-80) on Ebay. Perhaps if I buy one of those and bring it to a tech to install I could get what I'm looking for at a lower price.

Thanks


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Posted: Fri May 21, 2010 2:04 pm
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I've never been a fan of the P10Rs or any of those imported Jensen re-issues (the "MOD" series are the worst of the gaggle). You might try a pair of Weber Blue Pups to fatten up your tone. They won't do anything to increase the clean headroom but the amp will respond and sound significantly more like a vintage piece.

Fender generally biases their amps pretty cold and coupled with the OEM GT output tubes, that may be the root of your headroom problem. I'd install a matched set of JJs or TADs and set your bias for +/- 32ma. Changing your V1 and V2 to a premium 12AX7A or an NOS 7025 may help tame the hiss issues.

HTH

Arjay


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Posted: Fri May 21, 2010 10:03 pm
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Hi Dan and welcome to the forum! From what I've read, Fender took care of most of the hiss in the newer amps. I'd try some NOS 5751 tubes in the V1, V2, and V6(or GE 6201) positions. You could also try a different grade or brand of power tubes. But the bias would then have to be checked, and this amp doesn't have an adjusting bias pot, so the bench time might be a bit higher than usual. I wouldn't mod this amp, unless you're ready to kiss the warranty"good bye". But, some of the Moyer mods seem to be very sensible and just a return to the older Vibro-verb specs, with an eye on quiet operation. If you can't get the sound that you crave, through tube or speaker changes, then I'd opt out of this amp. My reasoning being , that these amps were not built to be taken apart and the boards worked on more than a few times in their lifetime. So, if It's modded once and you call it a day, then OK ! But pulling it apart every six months and tweaking it, isn't gonna fly. Just my opinion, and I'm kind of a fearless tweaker of a '68 Bassman. Art

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Posted: Sat May 22, 2010 7:31 am
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Hi, thanks for the warm welcome!

My Vibrolux is a late '90s model that I bought used so there's no warranty to worry about voiding.

Honestly I think the reports of horrible, uncontrollable hiss on this amp are a little (a lot) exaggerated. There's some noise sure but its a tube amp... I've had others (Fender and otherwise) that were MUCH worse. I talked to John Fromel who reassured me about the quality of his kit which adds a negative feedback loop and basically does all the Moyer mods... The kit is so cheap that buying and getting a tech to install would probably be something I could afford.

I really love the tone of this amp; I just want more of it! The hiss doesn't bother me, but breakup at 3-3.5 is definitely a bit early on the knob for my taste. Thats really the only thing I have any interest in changing.


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Posted: Sat May 22, 2010 11:04 pm
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Dan, couldn't find any specific info for Mr Fromel's kit, nor user feedback. The Moyer site was quite informative and plenty of discussion from users. The NFB circuit would certainly give the amp a cleaner character. But it's going to affect the dynamics of the entire amp( aka Global Feedback). Not a bad thing, if that's what you're after. I back down the feedback ratio in my old amps inorder to get a balance between the input dynamics and a reasonably wide bandwidth in the output section. If one of those kits offer a NFB switch, I'd go for that. The other thing I noticed, from my reading, was the preferrence to remove the reverb from the normal channel, seems to really clean things up. And the tube selection, for the preamp section is probably the biggest factor. You don't have to implement all of the mods, just the ones you and your tech think will get the amp to your tonal tastes. Art

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Posted: Sat May 22, 2010 11:45 pm
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Aclempoppi, I appreciate the help!

I ended up buying the Fromel mod kit which does the Moyer mods. Takes reverb and vibe out of normal channel, adds the NFB, etc... It was only $40 so why not? They say it only takes about an hour to do the mods so it shouldn't cost me much to have the work done. Fromel makes killer pedals so I'm gonna assume that he uses good components in his mod kits too. I also put a NOS GE 12at7 in V4 which helped clean up the sound a bit and I've got a couple NOS 5751s on the way. We shall see! It is certainly a nice amp, especially for the price I was able to get it for. I look forward to (hopefully) wringing the best tone possible out of it!


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Posted: Wed Jun 02, 2010 4:53 pm
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I just wanted to chime in on how much I still love my CVR. Mine has the infamous hiss, but it still sounds great! I like the early breakup, too, but that's just more my style, I guess.

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Posted: Wed Jun 02, 2010 4:58 pm
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Mine goes in to get modded tomorrow, finally.

I agree though, the CVR is good stock and the hiss isn't really an issue. Things like that tend to get overblown. I happen to like strong reverb and lots of headroom. If it had those two things out of the box, I'd not have bought the mod pack. But yeah, thats just my taste anyway!


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Posted: Wed Jun 02, 2010 5:02 pm
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Congrats on the mods! I thought about having a master volume installed on mine so I could actually play it at home, but I'm scared it would change the tone.

I just wish it wouldn't have taken me so long to test-drive one so I could have gotten one of the early blonde ones :(

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Post subject: Re: Taming a Custom Vibrolux Reverb
Posted: Tue Jul 19, 2011 6:22 am
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I believe J. Fromel makes the best kit/s. I got a 2 part kit. The first part are the Moyer mods. Part 2 is recap kit. My tech installed the cap kit [F&T & Sprague Atoms] then got sick. He brought it back with just caps done. With just the all of the caps replaced it transformed into a very quiet amp indeed. I had to check standby to be sure that I'd flipped it up. All of the early breakup still there & weak reverb. I re tubed it first with all good tubes. Changing wiring only thing that fixes reverb.


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Post subject: Re: Taming a Custom Vibrolux Reverb
Posted: Thu Aug 25, 2011 8:27 pm
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Hi CVR lovers. I must admit when I first got my CVR off e-bay I expected a reissue of the old blackface V'Lux. I didn't google it before buying since I've only had great experiences with Fender amps. I was lucky that I had saved a little money up. I don't believe any tube changes would help much in the headroom dept. I installed SED power tubes and Tung-Sols with a JJ for the PI. I studied all the Moyer kitmakers and am lucky that I chose Fromel. He suggested the Supreme Cap kit if I could afford. It made a huge difference. Now I have a Vibroverb circuit. The normal channel is brownface Fender. The bright channel is blackface reverb. Also, channel 2 of each side is 6db less volume. I'm not sure if it's attenuated or just quieter. Someone on this forum who has a lot more amp knowledge than myself would know. It's my last amp. If I was to gig with it, even a club, I would add a 2x12 cab to sit it on.


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Post subject: Re: Taming a Custom Vibrolux Reverb
Posted: Thu Aug 25, 2011 10:47 pm
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I think you meant to say "input 2" of each side......?

This is correct -- the second input of most vintage (and pseudo-vintage re-issue) amps is attenuated by 6 dB and is intended for use with an instrument equipped with active pickups, a keyboard, or even an accordion (!). The lower gain prevents premature saturation of the V1 stage which under some circumstances could actually drive the tube into a cut-off condition.

HTH

Arjay

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Post subject: Re: Taming a Custom Vibrolux Reverb
Posted: Sat Aug 27, 2011 3:54 pm
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For the life of me, I can't understand why so many people buy CVR's and then start complaining they'd like more headroom or the reverb isn't strong or the amp hisses. Do you not try it out before you buy it? Even if you ordered online, return it if it's not what you need. There's at least two other amps in the Fender line around the same price point as the CVR that are BF reissues and will do great cleans and lots of reverb.

Also, yes, mine breaks up and sounds amazing at about 3.5 on the knob as well, but at that volume, I can't play with anyone. It overpowers the drums (unmiked). I even tried it once at a gig where the whole band is miked and within 2 songs I had mine back down to about 1.5. All I could hear was myself - especially when I was anywhere within the beam of the speakers. (I also learned a valuable lesson about why never to use the kickback legs)

It's not a headroom amp. Sure, I guess if you want to mod it all up, but then it's no longer a CVR, is it? (so again, if that's not the sound you wanted, why not buy another amp that does sound like what you want?)

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Post subject: Re: Taming a Custom Vibrolux Reverb
Posted: Mon Sep 05, 2011 12:26 am
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Thats a valid question and I understand you asking. I cannot speak for everyone but in my case I SPECIFICALLY bought the amp to get it modded. I did not buy it new, however. I got a good deal on a used one and bought it for the sole purpose of modding it. The reason is because it uses the same basic circuit as a '63 and it's a very inexpensive alternative to get closer to that vintage amp. That being said, I'm kind of a DIY enthusiast anyway. The "mod" market for pedals is kinda big and I recently stopped buying them and started building my own. You can tweak cap and resistor values based off of classic circuits until you get a fully customized sound. Kind of the same idea with the amp. Regarding guitars... I dont think I've ever played one where I didnt want something changed/modded/or customized... and then once I think I've got it right, it's time for a change again. Kind of an endless cycle in my case. :)


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Post subject: Re: Taming a Custom Vibrolux Reverb
Posted: Mon Sep 05, 2011 12:32 am
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steelerkid wrote:
The reason is because it uses the same basic circuit as a '63 and it's a very inexpensive alternative to get closer to that vintage amp.


A '63 what?

The Vibrolux Reverb wasn't introduced until August of 1964.

Arjay

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