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Post subject: Gain pedals/DRRI issue
Posted: Thu May 13, 2010 9:43 pm
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So I've got this problem with my Deluxe Reverb RI, or possibly my pedals.

I run about ten pedals, mostly delay with a whammy and a phaser. All those sound fine, but all three of my OD/fuzz pedals cause significant tone loss both individually and when chained. They kind of suck the dynamics, attack and high end out of the tone. Different EQing on the amp can reclaim some of the high but the dynamics and subtlety of pick attack are gone.

I have tried each of the pedals in question individually, not chained to anything else, and tone suck occurs with every one. It can just be guitar->fuzz->amp and it'll suck.

What really confuses me is the fact that these are all, to the best of my knowledge, true bypass pedals; a Deltalab Tube Overdrive, Zvex Fuzz Factory, and a Rat. Tone suck occurs when the pedals are off. Does this make any sense? Anybody know if DRRIs have an issue with dirt pedals?

Thanks


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Posted: Thu May 13, 2010 10:02 pm
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The problem might lie with your cabling. A bad connection or a cold solder joint can cost you 3 dB, which essentially is cutting your available signal to the amp's input by half. Try some different cords and see if that improves the situation. I use a couple of stompboxes with my DRRI (including a A/B/Y Tone Bone to drive both channels simultaneously) and I've never had a signal-loss situation. You might also try some electronic contact cleaner on the jacks of all your effects and the amp itself. Even mild corrosion or nicotine residue can cause a loss of signal amplitude.

HTH

Arjay


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Posted: Fri May 14, 2010 12:39 am
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Yeah, I thought that and tried different cables to no avail.

I just can't figure out why it would only be true bypass dirt pedals and nothing else... I just spent the last couple hours moving them around, trying every configuration... Good thing I'm not working tomorrow. Tried them all separate again, even thought that maybe they weren't getting enough power and gave 9 volt batteries a shot. Nothing worked. Even if I just set up a really simple line, i.e. guitar->Deltalab Tube OD->DRRI I still have the same signal loss. The tone just becomes muddy and loses dynamics.

Yet when I omit all the OD and fuzz and run it through the rest of my pedals - which is four delays, a reverb, a phaser, and a whammy for crying out loud - it sounds fine, just as if I had plugged directly into the amp. There's some added noise from all the delays of course but the dynamic attack and the brightness is still there.

I've found that removing the Rat and subbing in a boss TR-2 (which is a buffered pedal) helps a little, seems to buffer the tone loss to some extent but not nearly enough. But why the hell would true-bypass pedals be doing this to my tone when they're off? And why is it only the distortion pedals!? It would be odd if all three of my dirt pedals had the same problem with a cold solder joint resulting in the same kind of tone loss. The whole thing just doesn't make any sense to me!


On the plus side I tried it on other amps and other guitars with the same result so it isn't the DRRI's fault.

Anyway, thanks for the reply.


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Posted: Fri May 14, 2010 11:47 am
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Somewhere I was told, or read that true by-pass may be verified by disconnecting the power supply and/or battery: if the signal still goes through, it is true by-pass. I can't verify if this is factual or not, perhaps someone else on this forum can.

Also, I understand that many pedals claiming to be true by-pass are not. A downside to true by-pass is a noisey, audible click when switching it on.

Sorry to be so "iffy", but I thought that someone else may be able to either verify or discredit this claim.

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Posted: Mon May 17, 2010 6:20 pm
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Yes RVM lead, I'm 99.9% sure that you are correct about the true bypass. When power is disconnected, it will still allow the signal to pass through unaffected (negligible)

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Post subject:
Posted: Mon May 17, 2010 6:33 pm
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I agree, yes a true hard bypass means your signal is wired direct from input socket to ouput socket when the pedal is switched off, with no other components in the line. So if you have no power to it it will still pass the signal, just like a short patch cable, which is what it effectively becomes.

My EHX English Muffn is a whole freakin tube pre-amp, in a pedal, and it's true bypass means that if I unplug the whole power supply my guitar still goes straight through, no change.

Maybe your bypasses aren't so true on those pedals. One way you could check is with a multi-meter. Use two cables, measure the impedance of each one, in ohms, then plug them through the pedal, switched off, and measure the impedance of that whole chain. Is it more than just the two cables?
I reckon the simplest solution if you are running so many pedals is to put a buffered one at the end of the chain. As long as you can do it with something that won't mess up your effects order, like a Boss tuner.

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