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Post subject: Champion 600 help needed
Posted: Mon May 03, 2010 1:51 pm
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My amp is not performing correctly. It sounds weak compared to way it did a few days ago. I have to turn it all the way up to achieve about what I used to get at mid volume. So, I have a few questions:

1)Could this be a tube problem? If so, one or both?

2)The 6V6GT tube is black. Is that the way it should look?

3)Where is the 12AX7 tube located. I can't find it. Is under that silver metal casing on the left side?

This amp used to sound great. Now it sounds flat. I have no Fender authorized service center within 125 miles, therefore any help I can get would be most appreciated.


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Post subject: Re: Champion 600 help needed
Posted: Mon May 03, 2010 2:33 pm
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1)Could this be a tube problem? Sure could be. If so, one or both? Only one way to find out.

2)The 6V6GT tube is black. Is that the way it should look? No. That's not a good sign. The glass of the tube should be clear with no dark spots.

3)Where is the 12AX7 tube located. I can't find it. Is under that silver metal casing on the left side? That is a tube shield. It pretty self explanatory to take it off and put it back on.

My advice is to just get a new 12AX7 and 6V6, pop them in and see how it goes. That seems the easiest route. There are plenty of tube retailers online of your local guitar shop doesn't carry any. First thing I did with my new Champ 600 was replace the tubes.

If you bought the amp new recently, you can take it back to the shop and they can retube it (Fender warranty on tubes is 3 months I believe, check the warranty info under "Support" at the top of the page) or they can exchange it for a new Champ. This amp is so cheap that Fender doesn't bother opening them up and doing work on them, they just replace them and toss the bad one if it's still under warranty. I bet you just need a new tube(s) though.

Good luck!

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Posted: Mon May 03, 2010 4:33 pm
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Thanks very much for the help! I'm ordering the tubes from Musiciansfriend as we speak. I knew I count on this site; all of you are awesome.


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Post subject:
Posted: Mon May 03, 2010 8:00 pm
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The black sounds like getter flash. It is normal and only indicates how fast the flashing was done. It can range from a mirror like silver to black.
http://thetubestore.com/blueglow.html#getters
That said, it's probably the power tube. I agree, I'd dump them both. I would steer clear of Groove Tubes. I've never had any luck with them. I pretty much have been running JJ's for ages.

One of my JJ's in my Egnater is black and it tests and runs just fine. The 600 is cathode biased so just pop the new tubes in, you don't need to bias or use a tech.


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Post subject: Re: Champion 600 help needed
Posted: Tue May 04, 2010 6:50 am
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8hank31 wrote:
My amp is not performing correctly. It sounds weak compared to way it did a few days ago. I have to turn it all the way up to achieve about what I used to get at mid volume. So, I have a few questions:

1)Could this be a tube problem? If so, one or both?

2)The 6V6GT tube is black. Is that the way it should look?

3)Where is the 12AX7 tube located. I can't find it. Is under that silver metal casing on the left side?

This amp used to sound great. Now it sounds flat. I have no Fender authorized service center within 125 miles, therefore any help I can get would be most appreciated.


The exact same thing happened with my 600, so I ordered new tung-sol tubes and figured I'd change out the speaker right away as well. The new solved the problem instantly and it's very easy. With the change you'll be back in biz straight away. As it turned out my 600 was sitting in the MF warehouse since 2007, so I figured it was because of that.

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Post subject:
Posted: Tue May 04, 2010 8:25 am
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Nah, tubes can last for decades. That's why you see NOS (new old stock) tubes for sale. The stock tubes in most new Fender amp aren't really that great. I just replaced an RCA 6V6 in my 74 Champ because of tube rattle, not because the tube failed. I couldn't record with the tube rattle.I bought the amp used 25 years ago and that RCA was in it.

With GT's they can last for years or minutes. In my HRDlx mine started to fail after after a few months.

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Post subject:
Posted: Tue May 04, 2010 12:43 pm
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63supro wrote:
Nah, tubes can last for decades. That's why you see NOS (new old stock) tubes for sale. The stock tubes in most new Fender amp aren't really that great. I just replaced an RCA 6V6 in my 74 Champ because of tube rattle, not because the tube failed. I couldn't record with the tube rattle.I bought the amp used 25 years ago and that RCA was in it.

With GT's they can last for years or minutes. In my HRDlx mine started to fail after after a few months.
right on the money. One thing to add is these amps are made in China, and it seems rather hit or miss on the tubes you get. I have a friend who got one around the same time I did. he lives in another city. he came to visit and used mine, and asked if I had modded it, i guess it sounded that much better. When he went home, he changed his tubes, I think he went with JJ's h said it made all the difference in the world.

To be honest, I haven't really looked to see what tubs are in mine. I will if/when they degrade or die.

You never know how long a given tube may last. I have a Fender that probably hasn't been tubed in 20 years, that still sounds great. I don't live where I can play loud, and i don't gig anymore, so it doesn't get much use anymore. But if your amp got knocked around, or dropped or something like that during shipping your tube life could be really short.

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Post subject: Re: Champion 600 help needed
Posted: Tue Jun 14, 2011 7:12 pm
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Everyone is posting online about how lousy the tubes are that come with the Fender Champion 600 reissue. I'm a believer now.

I just got my Champ yesterday and after I got it home and tried it in my house with my guitar, I couldn't play with the amp past 10 on the volume without crappy sound. It would quack and fart like no tomorrow from 10-12 on the volume. Luckily, I have an old stash of tubes, so I swapped mine out. My 6V6GT Chinese power tube was black too, although it did function. It was stamped made in 2007. The preamp tube was a Sovtek 12AX7W (or WA?).

As soon as I swapped out the Chinese 6V6GT with a NOS Made in USA RAYTHEON 6V6GT, the sound improved enormously. WAY better.

I I swapped out the 12AX7W with an old Made in USA Sylvania 12AX7A.
THe tube upgrade, particularly the 6V6GT, improved the sound tremendously. I'm no electronics guru, but I highly recommend the upgrade given this experience. :D


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Post subject: Re: Champion 600 help needed
Posted: Tue Jun 14, 2011 9:39 pm
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willinoodle wrote:
As soon as I swapped out the Chinese 6V6GT with a NOS Made in USA RAYTHEON 6V6GT, the sound improved enormously. WAY better.


Raytheon made great tubes back in the day. I still have some matched NOS pairs of 6L6GC's in my stash. Perfect for a Super Reverb or a Bassman!

Arjay

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Post subject: Re: Champion 600 help needed
Posted: Wed Jun 15, 2011 6:13 am
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Some tubes are painted black on the inner portion of the glass envelope. In hopes of helping to dissipated heat better. Like the old Reflector 6N6C:

http://www.worthpoint.com/worthopedia/x ... e-73997039

Thought is, that the old US made Graphite coated 6V6GT (like RCA) sound better than the clear glass tubes. To me they have a richer midrange than the clear glass 6V6GT. But, maybe a little softer high note:

https://www.tubeworld.com/6v6gtrca1.jpg

To me the newly made black "painted" tube sound just as bad or good as the clear ones.


Last edited by BMW2002Ti on Wed Jun 15, 2011 6:33 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Post subject: Re: Champion 600 help needed
Posted: Wed Jun 15, 2011 10:08 am
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I know that this thread is a little old, but yes, the Chinese 6V6 that come stock in the C600 are black, can't see inside, that is normal. Some of the amps came stock with EH 6V6, which are clear glass.

Did the OP ever get his new tubes?

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