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Post subject: Different Preamp Tubes in BDRI
Posted: Wed Apr 07, 2010 3:17 pm
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Fender sells the BDRI with 12AX7 preamp tubes. It has been suggested that using a 12AT7 in V3 and a 12AU in V1 will reduce gain (it will). But Fender does not recommend this. Most people say that it won't hurt the amp but I suspect that this configuration will cause the power tubes to work harder and heat up more causing the tubes to fail sooner and possibly causing damage to the circuit board.

Any thoughts?

Frank


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Posted: Wed Apr 07, 2010 3:44 pm
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I think it's fine to use different pre-amp tubes. Don't be worried about the power tubes heating more and working harder, these amps are biased cold from the factory anyway. I did a complete tube swap years ago with my HR DeVille and biased it all the way to 82mv, Bob at Eurotubes reccomends 90mv but 82 was fine for me.

Check out Eurotubes for different re-tube kits that Bob has set out for different things. JJ's are the way forward with this series.

Here's the link for the Blues Deluxe and DeVille options: https://ssl.eurotubes.com/cart/index.ph ... ory_id=122

CC

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Posted: Wed Apr 07, 2010 3:57 pm
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Thanks for the reference.

Not worried just curios why would this void the warranty if it does not cause some reduction n lifespan of something?


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Posted: Wed Apr 07, 2010 4:10 pm
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I'm curious as to why you would be wanting to "reduce the gain" in a BDRI?

I have always had the opposite problem with mine. I cannot get much OD at all with the volume at reasonable levels! Others I've talked with also are looking for more, not less, gain.

I'm seriously considering a Dr. Z brakelite attenuator.

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Posted: Wed Apr 07, 2010 4:15 pm
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RVM lead wrote:
I'm curious as to why you would be wanting to "reduce the gain" in a BDRI?

I have always had the opposite problem with mine. I cannot get much OD at all with the volume at reasonable levels! Others I've talked with also are looking for more, not less, gain.

I'm seriously considering a Dr. Z brakelite attenuator.


Just trade it for a Hot Rod or sell and save for a Deluxe Reverb RI.

CC

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Posted: Wed Apr 07, 2010 4:33 pm
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Quote:
Just trade it for a Hot Rod or sell and save for a Deluxe Reverb RI.


I'm not fond of the Drive sound on the Hot Rod (it's too harsh for my taste) and I don't care for the features of the DRRI (switching), although 22 watts is near ideal. I have not played through a DRRI however.

For $167 a Dr. Z brakelite may do what I'm looking for :? :?:

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Posted: Wed Apr 07, 2010 4:39 pm
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FXA wrote:
Thanks for the reference.

Not worried just curios why would this void the warranty if it does not cause some reduction n lifespan of something?


I didn't find anything in the warranty info that voids it if you change tubes. As long as you bias the power tubes properly. CC's right these amps are biased cold. I ran mine in the 82 -85 range. Never had a problem with the tubes.


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Posted: Wed Apr 07, 2010 5:11 pm
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I am interested in a smoother gain with more head room. Not interested in heavey rock sound.

As far as warranty I was told by a certified fender amp tech and did not look at anything written. Maybe he's wrong. I would be interested to know for sure.


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Posted: Wed Apr 07, 2010 5:46 pm
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RVM lead wrote:
Quote:
Just trade it for a Hot Rod or sell and save for a Deluxe Reverb RI.


I'm not fond of the Drive sound on the Hot Rod (it's too harsh for my taste) and I don't care for the features of the DRRI (switching), although 22 watts is near ideal. I have not played through a DRRI however.

For $167 a Dr. Z brakelite may do what I'm looking for :? :?:


The DRRI is hands down the best amp Fender make IMHO.

In terms of the Hot Rod, thats what the JJ's are for. Its the stock GT's that contribute the lions share of the harsh 'icepickiness' Its the only way to get decent gain out it, JJ's and biased hot. The BDRI is just the Hot Rod without the extra gain stage.

CC

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Post subject:
Posted: Wed Apr 07, 2010 6:12 pm
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Why has this devolved into what amp is best? Not really what the discussion is about.


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Posted: Wed Apr 07, 2010 6:18 pm
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FXA wrote:
Why has this devolved into what amp is best? Not really what the discussion is about.


Cool the jets, I was simply recommending an amp to RVM. :roll:

CC

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Post subject:
Posted: Thu Apr 08, 2010 5:15 am
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FXA wrote:
I am interested in a smoother gain with more head room. Not interested in heavey rock sound.

As far as warranty I was told by a certified fender amp tech and did not look at anything written. Maybe he's wrong. I would be interested to know for sure.


He's wrong. I not only changed the tubes in my HRDlx but biased it myself. It had to be repaired lots of time for things not connected to tubes and bias, but poor design and workmanship and was covered under warranty. The HRDlx was actually the only amp I ever had since 1964 that gave me so much trouble. Changing tubes and even the speaker are not considered modifications by any amp tech I know as long as you don't change the circuit. You can change brands as much as you want. Preamp tubes have different gain ratings and people have been experimenting with them for at least half a century.
If I were you I'd look for a new tech.

And CC, the DRRI was a great recommendation as far as a lower wattageFender amp goes.

FXA lighten up. Discussions often turn a little off topic from time to time. It's what makes this forum unique. A lot of us post daily and are pretty friendly. :D


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Posted: Thu Apr 08, 2010 6:34 am
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Sorry, Didn't meen to sound aggressive or angry. I have just seen strings go wildly off topic and didn't want to see that happen.

Sometimes internet writing appears more angry than the writer intends.

Please accept my apology.


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Posted: Thu Apr 08, 2010 8:21 am
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I would NOT recommend a 12AU7 in V1 or any other position for that matter. A 12AY7 would be more appropriate in V1 of your BDRI. The 12AU7 is waaaay low in gain and are mostly used in hi-fi audio rather than guitar amps. They make my amps sound anemic. Here is a handy guide to how preamp tubes relate to each other in terms of gain: http://thetubestore.com/gainfactor.html

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Post subject:
Posted: Thu Apr 08, 2010 10:48 am
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People do use 12AU7 tubes in their guitar amps. I know a few old timers that do and they sound great but different. Not really my thing, but still great tone. Still if you want to drop the gain, I agree a 12AT7 or 12AY7 would be a better choice. I put a JAN Phillips NOS 5751 in V1 in my Egnater and it lowered the gain exactly to where I wanted it. It only dropped the gain by 30% by what the info says. I'm not sure about the 30% but it was a noticeable difference.

You could just experiment with them and see what's best for you. Most tube dealers won't let you send them back though.


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