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Post subject: Super Champ XD - Suggestions For the Next Model
Posted: Sun Apr 04, 2010 1:58 pm
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First let me say how much I like the sound of this amp. I'm 51, and have been playing since I was 10. My first amp was a small Gibson, but I soon went to an early 60s Fender Concert w/ 4x10s and then later to a souped-up 72 Deluxe, on and on. I've never gotten a tone out of any of them like I've gotten with this little Champ (including my use of other Champ models). I'd like to know why Fender can't get this good a sound out of their more expensive amps because every one of the newer models from the Hot Rods to the reissues have a treble response that's like an ice-pick to the back of the eye. In fairness, a lot of the old Fenders were just as bad in that department, and guys were always modding them even when I was growing up. This little Super Champ XD, however, sounds perfect right out of the box, at least on a couple of voices.

My suggestions: With a Telecaster, the only voices I ever use are the first two. My one gripe is that the 1st voice on channel 2 is a much better clean sound than the rather sterile one on channel 1. I mean, channel 1 isn't terrible or anything, but that 1st voice on channel 2 is just so much better. I'd love to be able to footswitch between channel 2's voices using the first voice for clean and the 2nd voice for lead. As it is now I just use voice 2 most of the time and roll back the volume on the guitar to clean it up. Not bad, (and sometimes preferable), but I'd still like to be able to footswitch between channel 2's voices.

Also, you've got a lower wattage version in the 5-watt Vibro Champ XD which sounds just as good. I'd love to also see a higher wattage version for live use--maybe 30 to 40 watts. Okay, you probably wouldn't call it a Champ, but you know what I mean. Yes I know that voice 2 is based on the 59 Bassman and that you have a reissue of that model, but frankly, it doesn't sound as good as the old ones I remember. I'll take a bigger version of this Champ any day. What a great amp.

Thanks; I won't be posting again. I just figure that if I don't tell anyone what I'd like to have by way of product, then I darn sure will never get it. Build me a 40 watt amp just like this one (actually, I only need the 1st two voices myself), and I'll buy it.

Bill


Last edited by Bill_Seper on Sun Apr 04, 2010 2:39 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Post subject:
Posted: Sun Apr 04, 2010 2:28 pm
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Bill, Bill, Bill... First and foremost welcome. You can't stop after just one post it's state law. Besides, you obviously have some good knowledge and experience and that's how the rest of us get smart. You owe us pics of your gear at least. :roll:

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Posted: Sun Apr 04, 2010 6:57 pm
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Fender has done very well with sales of the SCXD according to a friend of mine at G.C. Not sure the Vibro Champ XD sells as well. Since the Deluxe VM is in the same series (Vintage Modified) at 40 watts I would be surprised to see a large SCXD. Some guys do use a 12" extension speaker however for a little fuller sound. Welcome to the forum!


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Posted: Sun Apr 04, 2010 8:14 pm
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The Deluxe VM is a bit different. It's just a regular 2-channel amp but with some added effects. I haven't played one, so it may be a nice amp for all I know, but it's a different animal from the Super Champ XD. The big drawing card to this Champ (for me anyway) is that incredible 59 Bassman voice which really does sound like a 59 Bassman only better.

I'm assuming that the Deluxe VM is modeled after a blackface Deluxe which I was never too crazy about.


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Post subject:
Posted: Sun Apr 04, 2010 9:29 pm
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I've got a SCXD and love it. I think it's the best 'bang for the buck' amp out in it's price range. I tried the Deluxe VM hoping that it would sound like a more powerful SCXD. It doesn't to me. It sounds much more digital and the distortion channel is very bright and grainy sounding to me. I wish it sounded like voice #8, but it doesn't.

I'm hoping they put out a 1-12" 30 watt version of the SCXD. It would be a great gig rig.


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Posted: Mon Apr 05, 2010 5:42 am
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Most of the icepick in the forehead tone comes from the lousy tubes they're using. Not the amp design. If you look around, many amp manufacturers are leaning towards amps with 20 watts or less, some neat features like my Egnater with the tube mix and watts control or Vox, Epiphone, Peavey, and Orange amps that use watt reducing switches or cathode biased amps where you can play with tube swaps, or tone shaping switches not a bunch of digital effects.

Fender has the VM series like another poster has mentioned. I'm not a big fan of amp modeling or digital effects. I'd rather have my 74 Champ than a shiny new SCXD. I practice with a GDec 30 and would never consider even bringing it to a rehearsal. The effects are horrible, I turn them off and use the drums and loop. That's just me. YMMV


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Post subject:
Posted: Mon Apr 05, 2010 9:52 am
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"Most of the icepick in the forehead tone comes from the lousy tubes they're using. Not the amp design."

I'm gonna have to disagree with that for the simple fact that the vast majority of Fender amps ever made have had that problem with the high end with the exception of a few of the tweeds and blondes. They've used an awful lot of different tubes over the past 50+ years. And swapping out tubes generally doesn't have that big an effect on the tone unless you funk up the bias (now THAT can effect the tone). Some tubes are a bit darker sounding. I remember Groove Tubes back in the 80s were very dark. I hated them. Fender has always done odd things with caps and resisters on input stages that I believe cause that shrill treble more often than not. Using a darker tube is just masking the problem. I don't think it would be fair to blame the tubes though considering how many different varieties Fender has used over the years.

"Egnater with the tube mix and watts control or Vox, Epiphone, Peavey, and Orange amps that use watt reducing switches or cathode biased amps...."

I've always hated those raspy Vox amps with a passion. Orange and Egnater are basically Marshall knockoffs. I'm not a Marshall kind of guy. The JTM 45s were the only decent sounding ones they made in my opinion, but they're still so throaty to the point of every guitar you put through them sounds the same. I don't really have anything against Marshalls, but to me you're playing the amp instead of the guitar with those. I like the Peavey Classic 30/50s quite a lot. That little bandit is a good SS amp and sounds better than about half the tube amps out there. But the 59 Bassman to me was the quintessential telecaster amp, and this Super Champ XD does that better than anything else I've yet to hear including the bassman reissues.

"Fender has the VM series like another poster has mentioned."

They have nothing at all in common with the Super Champ XD. Completely different voicing and circuitry.

"I'd rather have my 74 Champ than a shiny new SCXD."

Here's a pretty good example of a silverfaced Champ:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R61HVwhXCMM

Here's a good sample of the Super Champ XD:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SaoVJ7f31VY

If you like silverfaced Champs, all I can say is, you can sure have them.

And what on earth do digital effects have to do with anything? Who uses them?


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Post subject:
Posted: Mon Apr 05, 2010 11:21 am
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Bill I have to respectfully disagree with you on this one.
First the SF Champ sample is a joke. Some kid mindlessly wanking on a SF Champ that sounds like it was recorded with a Radio Shack lapel mic isn't a really good example. My 74 Champ sounds nothing like that. If it did I'd burn it. Champs of all styles including Tweed, Blackface and Silverface have been used for recording for decades.

Tubes have a tremendous effect on tone. I've been using Fender amps since 1974 and I've never had one that sounded like an icepick in the forehead except my Hot Rod Deluxe. A tube change rectified the problem. Many on this forum can attest to that. "Funking up the bias" is an important part of replacing the power tubes in any amp that in not cathode biased. It not only tone but the longevity of the power tubes.

Orange and Egnater amps are worlds apart from Marshall. Orange amps always had their own voice. Egnater, I own a Rebel 20 and it's far from a Marshall knockoff. Marshall amps do not run both EL84 and 6V6 power tubes at once let alone have an option to blend them. Vox? Great amps, used by Rory Gallagher, Brian May, the Beatles and countless others.

And what on earth do digital effects have to do with anything? Who uses them? If you own a VM DSP amp, YOU DO. All the effects and reverb on the SCXD are digital. LOL


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Posted: Mon Apr 05, 2010 2:03 pm
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"First the SF Champ sample is a joke."

Yes, but the joke is that it sounds exactly like every champ from that era I've ever heard, cheap mic or not. And I don't know of good recording that's ever been made on one. But hey, you've been using them for years and years, so you must have hundreds by now. Put up a vid and let's see it.

"Tubes have a tremendous effect on tone."

They can like in the GT example I mentioned, but more often than not they simply don't except in people's imaginations (which is generally the case) unless you swap tubes for something of completely different working voltages.

I agree the HD Deluxe is a culprit in the treble gone wild arena, but so is every single amp in the HD line. For that matter, so was just about every amp in the blackface line. When I was a kid nobody wanted them. If you had attended many concerts in the early 70s you would have seen mostly beefed up silverfaces and old blondes. I seldom saw a tweed back then for some reason, but whether you went to a Yes concert, Roy Buchanan, Phil Keaggy, the James Gang etc, it was mostly modified silverface Fenders you saw.

"Orange and Egnater amps are worlds apart from Marshall."

Then you've never heard them. Their own mothers couldn't tell them apart.

"Vox? Great amps."

Only in bizarro world. The Beatles are a great example. They always had some of the worst dry sticky guitar tones known to man.

"If you own a VM DSP amp, YOU DO. All the effects and reverb on the SCXD are digital. LOL"

Exactly who besides you in this thread has once mentioned using the effects on this Champ? They have absolutely nothing to do with anything in the thread. Oh, but here's language someone with 3,000 posts and nowhere to be can understand: LOLOLOLOL


Last edited by Bill_Seper on Mon Apr 05, 2010 2:08 pm, edited 2 times in total.

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Post subject:
Posted: Mon Apr 05, 2010 2:07 pm
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Hey Bill,
I suggest you get to know a few people on the forum before you start personally insulting them. 4 posts and your already personally insulting people? :? It's a shame, I'm only a few years older than you and have been playing since I was 11. I'd thought we've have a little more in common. Opinions on equipment are fine, keep the personal attacks to yourself if someone disagrees with you.


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Post subject:
Posted: Mon Apr 05, 2010 2:23 pm
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Bill_Seper wrote:
"Most of the icepick in the forehead tone comes from the lousy tubes they're using. Not the amp design."

I'm gonna have to disagree with that for the simple fact that the vast majority of Fender amps ever made have had that problem with the high end with the exception of a few of the tweeds and blondes. They've used an awful lot of different tubes over the past 50+ years. And swapping out tubes generally doesn't have that big an effect on the tone unless you funk up the bias (now THAT can effect the tone). Some tubes are a bit darker sounding. I remember Groove Tubes back in the 80s were very dark. I hated them. Fender has always done odd things with caps and resisters on input stages that I believe cause that shrill treble more often than not. Using a darker tube is just masking the problem. I don't think it would be fair to blame the tubes though considering how many different varieties Fender has used over the years.

"Egnater with the tube mix and watts control or Vox, Epiphone, Peavey, and Orange amps that use watt reducing switches or cathode biased amps...."

I've always hated those raspy Vox amps with a passion. Orange and Egnater are basically Marshall knockoffs. I'm not a Marshall kind of guy. The JTM 45s were the only decent sounding ones they made in my opinion, but they're still so throaty to the point of every guitar you put through them sounds the same. I don't really have anything against Marshalls, but to me you're playing the amp instead of the guitar with those. I like the Peavey Classic 30/50s quite a lot. That little bandit is a good SS amp and sounds better than about half the tube amps out there. But the 59 Bassman to me was the quintessential telecaster amp, and this Super Champ XD does that better than anything else I've yet to hear including the bassman reissues.

"Fender has the VM series like another poster has mentioned."

They have nothing at all in common with the Super Champ XD. Completely different voicing and circuitry.

"I'd rather have my 74 Champ than a shiny new SCXD."

Here's a pretty good example of a silverfaced Champ:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R61HVwhXCMM

Here's a good sample of the Super Champ XD:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SaoVJ7f31VY

If you like silverfaced Champs, all I can say is, you can sure have them.

And what on earth do digital effects have to do with anything? Who uses them?

Wow, in one post you managed to bag on Fender, Vox and Marshall amps. That's a big achievement! You're right, nobody gets good tones out of Fender, Vox or Marshall amps, but those Peavey Classics- they're the real deal! And of course the Peavey Bandit is one of the classic amps of all time...

I don't always agree(or disagree) with Supro, but I have to defend your attack on him. You're entitled to your opinion, but your statements are contradicted by over 50 years of amplifier history and the vast majority of guitarists over that period of time.

Please tell me which major artists you've seen on stage with a Peavey Classic or Bandit amp or a well known recording with them. I'm not knocking Peaveys, they make a good product. I had a Classic 30 which I think is a decent amp. But to make blanket statements like that is absurd to me.


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Post subject:
Posted: Mon Apr 05, 2010 4:48 pm
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"4 posts and your already personally insulting people?"

The word is "you're", and the term you and your other loser-name should be looking for is "quid pro quo".

And did I mention "LOL"?

This is why I said I didn't want to post any further. It never fails that some psycho with no friends, no life, no place to be, and no one to be there with, desperate to be somebody, and with a dozen user-names is granted permission to wreak havoc with an idiotnet forum. This is why only 5% of all people with a web connection will have anything to do with forums and chats. There's a reason you have no friends and 3000+ posts by your name. I suggest you ponder it. Whatever you do, do it away from me.

Fender site administrator, I leave you to your menace.


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Post subject:
Posted: Mon Apr 05, 2010 5:29 pm
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Thanks for the grammar lesson buddy. :D LOL
Seems like I might have one or two more friends than you though.


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Post subject:
Posted: Mon Apr 05, 2010 5:40 pm
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Wow.

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Post subject:
Posted: Mon Apr 05, 2010 5:46 pm
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Hmmm...that was weird. :roll:


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