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Post subject: Tube vs Model - scientific test! (maybe)
Posted: Sat Mar 13, 2010 4:11 pm
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Since we have had a recent (and very good-humored) debate on this forum about the tube vs solid-state/model thing, I thought I'd try some tests. I have just got a new rig for practice/rehearsals which includes both model and tube elements. It's:

Blackstar HT-dual pedal (tube but with solid-state buffering)
M-Audio Black Box (models and effects designed by Roger Linn, which is why I bought it)
Fender Super Champ XD (model preamp into tube power amp)

As well as this signal chain, I can route the speaker model outputs of the Blackstar or M-audio pedals into my studio monitors for comparison without the SCXD power amp/speaker.

This rig allows me to dial up basically similar sounds on both models and tubes, and compare how they sound with me playing. I tried a variety of sounds that I use regularly live, plus a few that I'd like to use but aren't needed for my band's current set.

Obviously a rig like this will make tube purists wail and gnash their teeth - but it does allow me to explore the impact of tubes in different parts of the signal path. [And, if makes you feel any better guys, the modeler is wired point-to-point :-)].

(BTW my guitar is a Godin xTSA which sounds a bit like an HSS strat)

OK, so, these are just my thoughts. Your mileage may vary.

Some basic findings:

1) Tubes, models, whatever: getting a decent sound takes some hard work and patience. I know people sometimes describe certain rigs as 'plug and play', but I think what they really mean is 'the controls were familiar enough that I could use my experience to dial my sounds easily'. If you expect to just buy gear, plug it in, and sound great, I think you're in for a disappointment, whatever kind of gear you buy.

2) The speaker in the amp turned out to be a surprisingly important part of the sound. The various (hardware and software) speaker emulations available in my rig were usually not as good as a real speaker in filtering out the nasty frequencies and leaving the 'sweet' ones. The only exception to this was when I mixed in some 'acoustic' tone from the piezo pickup on my guitar - that only sounded good in the studio monitors. You can't get that acoustic 'sparkle' without tweeters.

3) A modeler typically includes a huge range of effects and - if you know how to use it - can give you any number of unique and unusual sounds. It can also sound horrible in incredibly wide variety of ways if you're not careful. I immediately noticed that when you're tweaking the knobs on a tube preamp or amp, you are much less likely to hit a really nasty combination of settings. I can't do without my modeler - if I tried to recreate my sounds using stompboxes I'd need $10,000 and a full-time guitar tech. But I fully understand why many people steer clear - there's a real learning curve before you get good results.

So.....................

Tests on different sounds:

Clean, single coil. The prize here went hands-down to the SCXD's clean channel, through its own speaker, with everything else bypassed - lovely Fender chime. The SCXD clean channel is both model and tube, so neither side can claim a clear victory. I think what this probably shows is that an amp maker can get at least one decent sound out of any technology if they try hard enough.

Country style single plus humbucker. Twangy sound that gets gritty and distorted when you hit it hard: easy win for the tube pedal into the SCXD clean channel. The modelers - SCXD and Black Box - could sound either twangy or distorted, but couldn't make the transition cleanly in response to the signal level from the guitar.

Old-school hard rock. Warm, fat distortion, chords with open strings and inversions as well as power chords. The modelers could get the 'roar' when I hit the guitar hard, but if I hit a chord and let it ring, as the signal from the guitar died away, the sound got rough and scratchy. Tubes let the roar die away gracefully for as long as I let the chord ring. Tubes win by a nose.

Hi-gain rhythm. Chainsaw power chords, very very distorted and compressed, with the occasional single-string 'squeal'. No issue with chords dying away because they don't get allowed to! A very close call between the Uberschall model in the Black Box and the HT-Dual maxed out. Modeler had more bite, tube had more body. I could see that choosing between the two might simply come down to the exact tone I need for a specific song. Either way, the SCXD power amp/speaker clearly made the sound more musical and less fizzy.

Pyscho-gain solo. Gain on 11, plus delay and reverb for hi-speed soloing. Bridge humbucker pickup for rounder, nasal tone (and so my eyes don't water). The sound I get here almost doesn't sound like a guitar (deliberately). Couldn't nail the sound I wanted on the HT-Dual/SCXD - could only get it on the modeler DI'd into the monitors. I think this is an example of the modeler giving you a sound 'beyond' what a real amp could do, which can sometimes sound great. Having said that, putting the HT-Dual on high gain into a high-gain model gave me some seriously f****d-up sounds that I'd like to try to find a use for sometime.


Conclusions

H'mm, this is quite a long post. Anyone still with me?

My conclusions from these not-very-scientific tests:

- the higher the gain, the more likely the modeler will have something to offer
- the two modelers I tried here could not nail the sweet way in which tubes move into and out of break-up/distortion. Maybe one day, but not today it seems, unless perhaps you spend a ton more money?
- I can't really see an 'either/or' choice here. Each type of technology gives you options the other doesn't, so to cover all the bases you need both.
- now I have moved to a 'hybrid' setup, I don't want to go back. I have lost some convenience: on my old rig I could just press a button on the modeler and get the exact sound I set up; I can't do that with something like the HT-Dual. But I have gained an even wider range of tones.
- I still don't know what people mean when they say tubes sound 'warm'. To me 'warm' is talking about EQ, either explicit (from tone controls) or implicit (say, the frequency response of a speaker). Perhaps they just mean 'limited frequency response'....maybe someone can enlighten me?

Congratulations! You made it to the end of the post! :-)


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Post subject:
Posted: Sat Mar 13, 2010 6:01 pm
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Lots of info, but with all due respect, tone is very subjective. Some prefer ss, some tube. It often depends on the style of music as to which most prefer. For jazz many prefer solid state, I love the blues so for me tubes rule. Just my opinion.


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Posted: Sat Mar 13, 2010 7:28 pm
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I've looked at the HT-Dual myself. How do you like it?

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Posted: Sun Mar 14, 2010 6:12 am
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l88vette wrote:
Lots of info, but with all due respect, tone is very subjective. Some prefer ss, some tube. It often depends on the style of music as to which most prefer. For jazz many prefer solid state, I love the blues so for me tubes rule. Just my opinion.


Absolutely: that's my conclusion too. In my case, my preference (tube vs model) turns out to depend on which style of music I'm playing or which sound I'm aiming at.


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Post subject:
Posted: Sun Mar 14, 2010 7:00 am
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Hollis Prince wrote:
I've looked at the HT-Dual myself. How do you like it?


I like it a lot. The 'clean' channel is nothing special but the crunch and distortion sound nice. The ISF control is the best part - makes it easy to dial good sounds.


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