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Posted: Mon Mar 08, 2010 9:40 am
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Now to throw a wrench in the mix and stir the pot one more time... if Nevin were talking about guitars I would very likely be in total agreement with him. Back in the day, guitars were very inconsistent. Like the amps of old the guitars were also hand made. The difference is that the amps mostly used parts that were sourced outside the company and as a result were quite consistent for the time. This is why a vintage amp consistently sounds great. On the other hand guitars of old were made using hand made bodies and necks that varied significantly from one guitar to the next. More importantly the pickups were coiled in-house by hand. In some cases that hand wiring meant you got a very exceptional instrument but in other cases it meant you got a really, truly awful guitar. People dislike modern guitars because they are consistent and as such are perceived to lack character or individuality but at least they are consistently good. The problem with the early Fenders is that there was an extremely wide difference between the stellar ones and the total crap ones.

It is absolutely true that some of those vintage guitars were just so amazing that nothing made today even comes close. Unfortunately it is just as true that there were very few of those amazing examples and most were merely adequate and quite a few were nothing but garbage. Most of the merely adequate guitars of the 50's and 60's were roughly equivalent to what you can buy today in terms of tonal character. They felt different because body contours and neck profiles have evolved slightly over the decades. Of course the crappy ones were crap and there's not much more one can say in their defense. Back then, so much more than today, you really had to play every one to find one you liked. That's where (and why) that popular advise originally began.

Here's the problem as I see it and also the reason I refuse to entangle myself in the vintage guitar market. I know from personal experience that those stellar guitars, the ones with mojo, were also the very ones that got beat to death. You just couldn't put them down. In a time in history when more people than ever were drunk and stoned on a regular basis those exceptional guitars were roughly handled, passed around, traded, sold, bartered and MODIFIED. Yes, modified. We didn't know those guitars were one day going to be collectible antiques worth a fortune. Fender guitars were cheap and plentiful at the time and we hacked them up even more than people do today. So the great ones got beaten to death. Yes, they did. I helped beat them up and so did all the other guys who were musicians. They are pretty much all gone. Destroyed by a drunk who smashed it at the end of a show, thrown in the garbage, dropped off an apartment balcony or else in the hands of someone who will never sell. The mediocre ones got an average amount of play and average treatment. They are the ones being traded on eBay for $10K plus. And they are really not much better than anything you can buy today in terms of tonal character. The people who vehemently argue against that point feel compelled to because they have laid out mountains of cash based on their beliefs and don't like people saying that they spent a lot of money for a status symbol. The really crappy ones? The ones that nobody ever picked up because they sounded like crap? They're the ones that were still in the house after the kids moved on to college and they've been lying in a closet or under Grandma's bed for 50 years until somebody sees them one day and says, "Do you know what that guitar will fetch on eBay?" That's when you get the eBay listing for a completely stock, pristine, unmarked example that turns out to be an authentic 1955 Strat with not a scratch or even a polishing cloth swirl on it and comes with an asking price of $75K - $100K. The people who buy these guitars fall into two categories. Either they see the guitar as an investment and/or decoration and they don't care if it's payable or not OR they really do have more money than brains.

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Posted: Mon Mar 08, 2010 10:22 am
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Interesting points. There's also quite a market now for "antiquing" guitars to mimic the original marks to pass off guitars as older/more valuable than they are.

All the more reason that if you're going to spend that kind of money, buy from a dealer after you've played it and not just off of eBay/Craigslist. It's scary to me when I see the listings and dollar signs involved with guitars and amps on eBay people buy sight unseen and/or unheard.

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Post subject: Re: Why are blackface/silverface f considered better than HR
Posted: Mon Mar 08, 2010 11:21 am
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Azaril000 wrote:
Is it more of a sentimental thing, or is there a significant difference in the clean tone?


I played a HRDx for 6 years and think it's a good amp and I could get good tone out of it but now that I own a '64 Vibroverb RI I can easily say the HRDx is not even in the same league. I don't know if it's better craftmanship, components, etc but there is a big difference in sound. Maybe it's just the different circuit, maybe it is a mental thing I don't know, but I do know that while the HRDx sounds good the Vibroverb sounds amazing to me.

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Posted: Mon Mar 08, 2010 12:23 pm
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Does the rectifier, tube vs solid state make a difference?

Seems some tube amps have solid state rectifiers and some tube amps have tube rectifiers.

Does sag come from tube rectifiers? So amps with solid state rectifiers won't have sag or the sag will some how be different?

Thanks.


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Post subject: Re: Why are blackface/silverface f considered better than HR
Posted: Mon Mar 08, 2010 12:38 pm
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Voodoo Blues wrote:
Azaril000 wrote:
Is it more of a sentimental thing, or is there a significant difference in the clean tone?


I played a HRDx for 6 years and think it's a good amp and I could get good tone out of it but now that I own a '64 Vibroverb RI I can easily say the HRDx is not even in the same league. I don't know if it's better craftmanship, components, etc but there is a big difference in sound. Maybe it's just the different circuit, maybe it is a mental thing I don't know, but I do know that while the HRDx sounds good the Vibroverb sounds amazing to me.


It's a bit of everything. The Vibroverb is a total tone monster. My HRDlx was pretty much a tone turd compared to my other amps. I thought the HRDlx had some potential, but I was never able to get what I wanted out of it. My Egnater gives me the tone I've heard in my head for years. LOL

A tube rectifier will give you more compression or sag. It's a git "looser" sounding for lack of a better term. SS rectifiers are a bit tighter, louder and lack that compression. It's all a matter of taste. I have and like both.


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