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Post subject: Why are blackface/silverface f considered better than HRD
Posted: Sat Mar 06, 2010 2:27 pm
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Hey all,

I've had a Fender HRD for about 1 year. Clean sounds brilliant to me, but then again I dont have any vintage/reissue fenders to compare with. I dont touch the drive except on rare occassions, but mainly get my dirt from pedals.It's mainly my "clean" or blues amp.

Through some time I've always wondered what has blackface/silverface fenders have that a Fender Hot Rod Deluxe doesn't, and why a Fender HRD gets alot of slack around many forums, and the blackfaces/original fenders and admired.

Not that I want to be starting any wars here, I am genuinly curious as I seem to be falling for all the talk and wanting to sell my HRD for a blackface amp, Twin, deluxe reverb, vibrolux, pro reverb, bassman etc. Is it more of a sentimental thing, or is there a significant difference in the clean tone?

Thanks!


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Posted: Sat Mar 06, 2010 3:01 pm
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I have a Blues Deluxe Reissue which are in the Hot Rod family of Fender amps I think. Somebody please correct me if I am wrong. I truly love this amp. I really love the effects loop. Having your pedals between the preamp and power amp rather than between the instrument and amp is a vast improvement. It's a great Blues and Classic Rock amp. The clean channel is like silk and the Drive channel is like hot salsa.

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Posted: Sat Mar 06, 2010 3:34 pm
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I have a 74 Twin that was only recapped once in over 30 years. My 74 Champ has never been worked on. They were built better and sounded better even when they were new.

My HRDlx turned to garbage in less than 6 months. The only thing usually that get replaced in vintage amps are the electrolytic caps and tubes which is normal maintenance.

I had to have my power supply caps, 5 watt power resistors, solder joints on my tubes sockets repaired and a power tube failure all in a six month span on my HRDlx. I couldn't trust it to gig with.

Which amp do you think is built better? It's not an idea in anyone's head, it's a fact of life. There's nothing wrong with the BF Reissues. They're great amps, but they are built with better materials than the HRD series. You basically get what you pay for. Everyone really needs to test drive either a reissue or the real deal and A/B the amps and you'll see what I mean.


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Posted: Sat Mar 06, 2010 3:49 pm
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Nevin1985 wrote:
People like vintage amps mainly because they have an idea in their head that the construction quality is better, better components etc.

But then they buy a vintage amp and replace darn near every part on it....



Nope. I'm sorry but that's not it at all, really. They did use better quality parts to build the amps back in the day. It's not just all in my head. They do sound better and they are more reliable. It's not a question of "whether" they are better but "how much" better they are. And the answer IMO is "significantly".

You said in the other thread that your handle was your first name and the year of your birth. So with your 25 years of age I am more than twice as old as you and I have experience in both time frames. Then and now. Sorry, but I do know what I'm talking about.

And my vintage amp is completely original except for the consumables (tubes). I completely expect it to outlive my two S/S amps. It's already lived 38 years which is more than I can say about the Blues Deville I bought in '96 and the Deville is the best one of all the HR/JR amps.

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Posted: Sat Mar 06, 2010 4:00 pm
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Even the 65 reissue Twin uses Illinois capacitors that are made in Taiwan and are about half the size of American made caps.

Don't take this the wrong way, but I too am a geezer and have been playing guitar roughly 20 years longer than Nevin1985 has been on this earth and I agree 1,000% with BMW-KTM. The amps were seriously built better and sounded better.


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Posted: Sat Mar 06, 2010 5:21 pm
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I have a 69 Silverface Bassman and haven't done a thing with it-I don't need to-the amp is a tone monster,through a Marshall 1960 4-12 cabinet it just sings and when you crank it up the amp dirties up just beautifully,I also run it through my vintage Leslie model 16 and the sound that creates is nothing short of simply ethereal.There are a lot of vintage amps out there that still have that old magic in them and don't need a thing done with them but to sit back and enjoy.

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Posted: Sat Mar 06, 2010 6:31 pm
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Well , I have had the hotrod, several blues jrs ,a 75 super reverb, I now have a blues deluxe ,a 59 bassman ri and a deluxe reverb ri.I can tell you ,if you disassemble the reissue amp or a vintage amp and compare it to a hot rod,you will see why the hotrod falls short.Much better in the construction dept.Tone wise my blues deluxe sounds like a toy compared to the deluxe reverb.No comparison IMO.BTW, I dont really feel the vintage amps are really better than the reissue.Same circuitry, different technology.


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Posted: Sat Mar 06, 2010 11:57 pm
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Nevin1985 wrote:
Sounds like most modern haters have had bad experiences and lumped every new cheap amp into the same boat.

If we all played old dilapidated gear music would be stagnant.

Do I still enjoy vintage gear including amps? Yes, I am adding a new piece to my collection next week. Is it Godly? No.


I feel like you fail to grasp the point...noone is hating on the hotrods. They are decent amps, ive heard very usable sounds out of them. But i guess i could say the same thing about your opinion. "i guess all vintage amp haters have no experience and lump old crap in with quality vintage amps."...(<not a true statement simply making a point).

All they are saying is they PREFER vintage and reissues of the vintage amps. They simply sound better to them. Its all a preference. Some people like one piece bodies on their guitars...others (ala Jack white) like plastic Sears guitars.....and Jack does get some serious tone out of it...

Anyway, not intended to offend, just to clear things up a little, hope i did.

-Vince

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Posted: Sun Mar 07, 2010 5:04 am
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The original poster asked an honest question and got honest responses.The reissues cost more because they cost more to make.Take one apart and it doesnt take a rocket scientist to figure out that more goes into the design and build than the Hotrod series.Let the reliability of the 2 Fender lines speak for themselves.Personally , I have never had any problems with my hr/bdx amps, but tons of people have.It is a rare thing to hear of someone having trouble with their reissue or vintage amps.


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Posted: Sun Mar 07, 2010 6:56 am
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I have bought, traded, and gigged with many amps, always in search of improving my tone. I love the tone on my vintage amps. My reissues all sounded great too. I had a few deluxe hotrods and blues deluxe, with no problems, except when I pushed the volume up, they sounded muddy. That was fixed by using amps with higher rated wattage, that were more suited for the gig enviroment. I think its personal preference and using the proper sized amp for venue. The hotrod series are nice amps, I personally think the tone on vintage amps sound better. Let your ears, be the judge. :D

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Post subject:
Posted: Sun Mar 07, 2010 7:57 am
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vjcor wrote:
Nevin1985 wrote:
Sounds like most modern haters have had bad experiences and lumped every new cheap amp into the same boat.

If we all played old dilapidated gear music would be stagnant.

Do I still enjoy vintage gear including amps? Yes, I am adding a new piece to my collection next week. Is it Godly? No.


I feel like you fail to grasp the point...noone is hating on the hotrods. They are decent amps, ive heard very usable sounds out of them. But i guess i could say the same thing about your opinion. "i guess all vintage amp haters have no experience and lump old crap in with quality vintage amps."...(<not a true statement simply making a point).

All they are saying is they PREFER vintage and reissues of the vintage amps. They simply sound better to them. Its all a preference. Some people like one piece bodies on their guitars...others (ala Jack white) like plastic Sears guitars.....and Jack does get some serious tone out of it...

Anyway, not intended to offend, just to clear things up a little, hope i did.

-Vince


LOL I hate them. I'm allowed to. It's my opinion and experience with the HRDlx. My HRDlx was the worst Fender amp I have ever owned in 40 years. I have no problem with modern amps as long as they are built and designed well. I have an Egnater Rebel 20 and the amp has been bulletproof and has amazing tone.

The HRD series falls way short on both issues. Nevin, don't get upset because people don't agree with you. Neither of my vintage Fenders are dilapidated. You made an unfounded and uneducated statement.

I feel the HRD series are beyond stagnant.I always see a lot of local player with the same horrible overdrive tone that the HRD's are famous for. At lest change the preamp tubes to get some decent sounds out of it.


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Posted: Sun Mar 07, 2010 8:23 am
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The Hot Rod series is alright. BF/SV have audio taper pots rather than digital, they have the tube sockets mounted on the chassis rather than the circuit board, they don't have the tubes right next to the speakers, they have metal input jacks, they have thick PCBs rather than the thin ones in the HRD, they have higher quality caps...

Let me know if I'm missing anything. I owned a HRDV 212, and personally I now get a more pleasing tone out of my SF Champ that has a weber speaker without killing my ears.

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Posted: Sun Mar 07, 2010 10:18 am
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Capo wrote:
The Hot Rod series is alright. BF/SV have audio taper pots rather than digital, they have the tube sockets mounted on the chassis rather than the circuit board, they don't have the tubes right next to the speakers, they have metal input jacks, they have thick PCBs rather than the thin ones in the HRD, they have higher quality caps...

Let me know if I'm missing anything. I owned a HRDV 212, and personally I now get a more pleasing tone out of my SF Champ that has a weber speaker without killing my ears.


Capo, BF and SF amps do not use PCB's, they use Turret Boards. Turret Boards have no traces. It's quite a bit different. Also BF and SF amps were hand wired with quality made American components. Even a SF amp with sloppy lead dress is more reliable than a HRD series amp.


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Posted: Sun Mar 07, 2010 1:10 pm
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Originally posted by 63 Supro
Quote:
Capo, BF and SF amps do not use PCB's, they use Turret Boards. Turret Boards have no traces. It's quite a bit different. Also BF and SF amps were hand wired with quality made American components. Even a SF amp with sloppy lead dress is more reliable than a HRD series amp.


I really need to stop posting before I've had an adequate amount of caffeine >____> My bad ^^

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Posted: Sun Mar 07, 2010 3:51 pm
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No worries my friend. :wink:


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