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Post subject: 65 DRRI doesn't enjoy pedals?
Posted: Wed Mar 03, 2010 5:35 pm
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Hi Everyone,
I'm thinking of giving up on the 65 DRRI. It seems to not take pedals very well and certain things sound muddy and others just way too harsh. I've messed with the tone knob on the guitar, the treble and bass on the amp, volume, etc. and I can't seem to get a great tone. I'm also trying to play more of delayed, dream, verb stuff like U2 and Coldplay and that always sounds the harshest when I try to get a good clean. any suggestions?

Thanks,
Lank


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Posted: Wed Mar 03, 2010 5:51 pm
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There's something wrong with your pedals, guitar or there's an issue with the amp - the Deluxe Reverb takes pedals extremely well.

Instead of just describing your problem vaguely, describe:
your guitar
signal chain - what pedals, in what order. Include cables, power supply, etc.
Amp settings - volume, bass, Treble, Reverb

How does the amp sound with just a cable to the guitar?

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Posted: Wed Mar 03, 2010 6:33 pm
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Sorry for the vagueness. Currently I'm playing a Std Strat w/ CS 69s in to this chain -> Dyna Comp -> MI Audio Blues Pro -> OCD v4 -> Green Muff -> Holy Grail Reverb -> Deluxe Reverb. I've tried these treble / bass - 6 & 6 - 7 & 4 - 5 & 3.5 - 4 & 4 - 4&6 amongst others. Reverb is usually anywhere from 2-4. I've also messed with volume and tone knob for the neck pickup which I play the most on. It seems to either a little too much on the harsh / ice picky or it's losing oomph. Let me know your thoughts or if you want more specifics. I played through my buddies Twin and I thought it sounded about 2x as good.

Thanks,
Matt


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Posted: Wed Mar 03, 2010 8:30 pm
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lank81 wrote:
Sorry for the vagueness. Currently I'm playing a Std Strat w/ CS 69s in to this chain -> Dyna Comp -> MI Audio Blues Pro -> OCD v4 -> Green Muff -> Holy Grail Reverb -> Deluxe Reverb. I've tried these treble / bass - 6 & 6 - 7 & 4 - 5 & 3.5 - 4 & 4 - 4&6 amongst others. Reverb is usually anywhere from 2-4. I've also messed with volume and tone knob for the neck pickup which I play the most on. It seems to either a little too much on the harsh / ice picky or it's losing oomph. Let me know your thoughts or if you want more specifics. I played through my buddies Twin and I thought it sounded about 2x as good.
Thanks,
Matt
Out of curiosity, why do you have a reverb pedal when you have probably the best reverb on the planet in your amp and are you using both reverbs?Have you tried both channels?I have a drri and it takes pedals really well.It seems to me you have 3 od pedals a comp pedal and a reverb pedal.I would put just one od pedal in at atime and see if that helps,also use either the pedal reverb or the amp reverb , but not both.Ideally , you want the comp pedal after the od and reverb pedal also.BTW , if you like the U2 sound , why no delay pedal?That is huge for his sound.


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Posted: Wed Mar 03, 2010 8:59 pm
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budglo wrote:
lank81 wrote:
Sorry for the vagueness. Currently I'm playing a Std Strat w/ CS 69s in to this chain -> Dyna Comp -> MI Audio Blues Pro -> OCD v4 -> Green Muff -> Holy Grail Reverb -> Deluxe Reverb. I've tried these treble / bass - 6 & 6 - 7 & 4 - 5 & 3.5 - 4 & 4 - 4&6 amongst others. Reverb is usually anywhere from 2-4. I've also messed with volume and tone knob for the neck pickup which I play the most on. It seems to either a little too much on the harsh / ice picky or it's losing oomph. Let me know your thoughts or if you want more specifics. I played through my buddies Twin and I thought it sounded about 2x as good.
Thanks,
Matt
Out of curiosity, why do you have a reverb pedal when you have probably the best reverb on the planet in your amp and are you using both reverbs?Have you tried both channels?I have a drri and it takes pedals really well.It seems to me you have 3 od pedals a comp pedal and a reverb pedal.I would put just one od pedal in at atime and see if that helps,also use either the pedal reverb or the amp reverb , but not both.Ideally , you want the comp pedal after the od and reverb pedal also.BTW , if you like the U2 sound , why no delay pedal?That is huge for his sound.


nonsense on comp ideally being after the overdrive - either is fine according to taste.

Agree that Holy Grail is wasted on a fender reverb amp and won't get you that U2 Coldplay sound you want - you need a clean delay.

Too many drive/fuzz pedals - if you're using more than one at the same time chances are that's what is making your signal harsh. You never answered what kind of cables or battery/ power, all of which if they're low quality will hurt your sound.

I'll ask again- what does the DR sound like to you without any pedals? Should sound great. Otherwise, your amp is broken, or your combination of pedals, cables and power are suspect. I have tried an OCD on a Princeton, Deluxe and my Bandmaster and it's anything like you're describing.

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Posted: Wed Mar 03, 2010 9:14 pm
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I agree, I do have one of the best on board reverbs ever. I had the EHX holy grail before I ran through the DRRI but I kept it for Hall and Flerb. As for Delays, I'm going to be getting a DL4 here soon but I just haven't had the cash. Also, recently I've been working with a new group on guitar stuff where before I used mainly dirt pedals. I'm using Livewire cables and I'm powering my pedals with a 1Spot. I'll try taking things out of the chain though and going directly in and see how it sounds.

Thanks,
Matt


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Posted: Wed Mar 03, 2010 11:02 pm
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Assuming that it is your amp that has the problem, how long have you had your amp? Bought brand new or second hand? Maybe time to change your tubes? Your description of "Ice pick, harsh, loosing oomph", are words I used to describe my Blues Deluxe's tone when the tubes were old. I would also like to add -- "no sustain, no life". If you have a friend with a new or good set of tubes that you can use with your amp, try them and see if it makes a difference. This way, if it ain't the tubes, you don't waste good money. Even new amps can come with defective tubes.

Just curious, what tubes do you have in your amp?


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Posted: Thu Mar 04, 2010 1:15 am
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lank81 wrote:
I agree, I do have one of the best on board reverbs ever. I had the EHX holy grail before I ran through the DRRI but I kept it for Hall and Flerb. As for Delays, I'm going to be getting a DL4 here soon but I just haven't had the cash. Also, recently I've been working with a new group on guitar stuff where before I used mainly dirt pedals. I'm using Livewire cables and I'm powering my pedals with a 1Spot. I'll try taking things out of the chain though and going directly in and see how it sounds.

Thanks,
Matt


Nothing wrong with lots of dirt pedals - I've got several on my pedalboard as we speak! Usually not all are turned on at the same time.

Not sure the 1 spot can also handle the DL4 as the holy grail is a current hog at 225 milliamps of current. You may want to step up to a Voodoo Labs Pedal Power 2 or their junior for clean, filtered, indivually transformer isolated noise free power outlets.

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Posted: Thu Mar 04, 2010 5:13 am
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Galore,
The tubes are the stock ones and I purchased the amp about 8 months, maybe nine ago. I'll definitely check with a few guys to see if I can borrow some tubes to swap out. Neo, I have a separate adapter for the Holy Grail so right now it's just the Blues Pro, Dyna, OCD, and Muff being powered by the 1spot. Think the DL4 will be ok on that power chain? Either way, I'll check out the Vodoo Pedal Power. Thanks alot. Best responses on this issue by far, compared to other forums :).


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Posted: Thu Mar 04, 2010 8:28 am
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I've heard many people have had good luck making the DRRI more pedal friendly by cutting the bright cap out of the Vibrato channel input. Maybe do a search under "DRRI bright cap mod".

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Posted: Thu Mar 04, 2010 8:31 am
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metropolis74 wrote:
I've heard many people have had good luck making the DRRI more pedal friendly by cutting the bright cap out of the Vibrato channel input. Maybe do a search under "DRRI bright cap mod".
I have heard people have had good luck with that mod.I wont be doing mine because it is still under warranty.That being said , should still be able to get great tones without the mod.


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Posted: Thu Mar 04, 2010 9:28 am
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My DRRI takes pedals like crap as well (ODs, anyway). Most of it is the bright cap on the vibrato channel; they sound better on the normal channel, but not exceptional at low volumes.

I'm wondering if a re-tube will help, because it needs it. I bought it used and it still has the stock tubes. Plus it has been sounding really trebly and brittle lately, more so than when I first bought it. I'm thinking about the JJ set from eurotubes, but I've read mixed reviews about the JJ preamp tubes. Their power tubes are supposed to be some of the best current production tubes available, though.

I thought about cutting the bright cap, but decided not to. As it stands, the bright cap gives the Deluxe two distinct sounding channels. Cutting it will make the two channels sound similar. I like the brightness of my DRRI, as it compliments my darker amps and provides variety. I can live with relegating drive pedals to the normal channel. I'm curious to see what a tube change and rebais will do, though.


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Posted: Thu Mar 04, 2010 9:32 am
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budglo wrote:
That being said , should still be able to get great tones without the mod.


+1 - don't mod the amp until you figure out the issue.

New tubes may make a difference, and it may need to be rebiased - if you are still in doubt of the amp by itself, I'd take it to a competent amp tech to have them take a look at it.

Here's what I would do, step by step:

Guitar plugged straight into the DRRI - how do you like the sound? With your strat and a deluxe reverb, you have a classic Fender sound setup and it shouldn't sound ice-picky or harsh.

Add one pedal at a time physically to the setup. The idea is to isolate/learn what pedals (and settings) sound best for you.

Once you're satisfied you're getting the tone you want, add another pedal. This is a great time to see whether you like the Dynaccomp before or after the overdrive. a company called http://pedalboards.com/new_page_2.htm
makes a great box called the "Flip Flopper" that lets you change the order of the two (or any two pedals) so you don't have to make up your mind. Also since you have multiple pedals that are similar, you can set them up in several different ways - different colors of dirt, as you said, or make one a crunch/overdrive pedal, and set another to act as a boost/lead pedal, giving you clean/dirt/lead options. Your call and up to your preferences.

Repeat the adding pedals until you have all your pedals hooked up and are satisfied with the sound and settings. Take a digital picture of your pedals to remind yourself of the settings (I have kids, so a 10-pedal pedalboard just looks like FUN!).

If you're looking for Coldplay/U2 type sounds, delay is a critical part of that sound and you won't get there with just the Holy Grail. Tons of delays from a vintage Korg rack delay to the Boss DD6. I have an old Ibanez AD9 I bought back in '83 that's great for slapback (only 300ms delay max) but it's a bit noisy so it's on a true bypass looper. For longer delays, I've found my Boss DD6 does fine. There are lots out there and you'll need to see which one works for you.

On the power/current draw, you should be fine, but you can easily google current draw for all your pedals to see if it's under. Be also sure that your amp, Holy Grail and 1 spot are plugged into the same outlet/strip - otherwise you'll be opening yourself up to ground loop problems and noise.

Good luck!

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Posted: Thu Mar 04, 2010 9:55 am
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Nedorama,
Thanks a lot. I'll definitely look in to all the info you gave me and take picture of my board as my 2.5 year old loves to play with my gear. Also, I may just retube it since I did enjoy the sound a lot more when I first had the amp. Now, rebiasing, can I do this? Just wondering. Finally, getting a DL4 today. I've been saving up for it and can grab it and order tubes today so I'll let you know of all of my progress and changes / switches / testing. Thanks a lot.

Matt


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Posted: Fri Mar 05, 2010 2:22 pm
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sounds like the bias is off or you need new output tubes


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