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Post subject: Hot Rod Deville 410 issues
Posted: Tue Nov 20, 2007 2:57 pm
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Hey all, I have an issue with my Hot Rod Deville 410 and not sure whats causing it. When I first bought it back in 2002 I was playing through it and had it turned up a little louder than I wanted and ever since it hasn't been the same. When I am playing now and I turn it up just a little it makes a scratchy noise and cuts out then comes back. Could this be a tube issue or did I really screw it up? I could take it to an authroized Fender repair shop in town but thought I might get some help here. Thanks.


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Posted: Tue Nov 20, 2007 5:13 pm
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you need to clean the volume pot(s) on the amp. they accumulate dirt over time. either take it to a tech, or you can do it yourself if you're careful.

UNPLUG THE AMP 1st... its running over 425 volts on the plate.. enough to shock you or throw you across the room...or fry the amp if you're not careful. DON'T TOUCH ANY COMPONENTS OTHER THAN THE POTS UNLESS YOU KNOW WHAT YOU'RE DOING!! Don't stick anything other than the nozzle of the cleaner can inside the chassis. DO NOT stick any screwdrivers or pliers inside the chassis with the cover off!!!

take the back panel off... should be 5 screws

buy some Deox IT .. black can, white label with green or red lettering. make sure you get they version that is SAFE FOR PLASTIC.

attach the nozzle to the can, stick it inside the pot if you can and give 1 or 2 quick squirts. You don't want it running out and over everything. might as well get all the pots while you're in there.

Twist each knob back and forth, to each extreme several times immediately after using cleaner. This will dislodge any material inside the pot.

Replace the back panel, wait a few minutes (at least 5) for the stuff to dry out. plug it in and try it. be sure to twist each knob with the amp plugged in and turned on to test for any other noise.

Repeat again if this didn't clear up most of the noise.

If the noise still persists after 2 cleanings... take the amp to a tech.

If you don't feel confident or safe doing this... take it to a tech, tell em to clean the pots ONLY... shouldn't cost you more than a half hour of bench time... at around $60/hr

This also works for scratchy guitar volume pots...and effects pedals (if you can get to the pots inside the pedal).


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Posted: Tue Nov 20, 2007 5:18 pm
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I don't think that the pots are dirty, i only had it for a few weeks when it started doing this and it was in a sealed box when I bought it but i'll see what I can find with the pots. I'm an aircraft electrician so I know to be carefull around open circuits and components. Thanks for the tip.


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Posted: Wed Nov 21, 2007 9:56 am
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If its not dirty control pots, then you might have one or more cold (cracked) solder joints, which were most likely loosened further by chassis vibrations from playing at higher volume.

After being in storage for a couple years (in addition to several years being played in a loud cover band), my 93 Blues Deville developed almost a dozen cold solder joints.

You really should take the amp to a good tech.

However, if you're brave/stupid enough to diagnose the problem yourself:

Take the back panel off.
Pug the amp in, and turn it on.
Set the amp to channel 1, with volume on 1-2, just loud enough to hear.
Using a wooden chopstick (or something non conductive) BUT NOT METAL, tap EVERY component on the PCB.
Start in one corner (near the input jack) and work your way across the PCB.
Any loose or cracked solder joints will manifest themselves as crackling noise coming thru the speaker.

Make note of any loose components. You can take this list to your tech, or you can completely disassemble the amp (discharge the filter capacitors, remove the chassis from the cabinet, remove ALL the knobs and nuts from the control panel, remove the PCB) and touch up the offending solder joints with a soldering iron.

BE WARNED!!! Plate voltages in this amp approach 450 volts...
You can fry the amp and you can electrocute yourself doing this, so be careful.

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93 Blues Deville 212
05 MIM Strat with 96 Am. Std. "Delta Tone" and Dimarzio Virtual Vintage pickups
98 Carvin Bolt with Dimarzio and Duncan pickups
Muzique.com Mini-Booster and MOSFET Booster
Ibanez TS-9 Reissue (TS-808 and flat-mid mods)


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Posted: Wed Nov 21, 2007 10:01 am
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Thanks again for the info, i'll take a look at it but won't delve into it to much. If I don't find anything obvious i'll take it to the tech in town and let him fix it. I was hoping that maybe a tube might be going out but it doesn't sound like that could be it. Appreciate the help dta74.


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Post subject: Re: Hot Rod Deville 410 issues
Posted: Wed Nov 21, 2007 10:10 am
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AKBlues wrote:
Hey all, I have an issue with my Hot Rod Deville 410 and not sure whats causing it. When I first bought it back in 2002 I was playing through it and had it turned up a little louder than I wanted and ever since it hasn't been the same. When I am playing now and I turn it up just a little it makes a scratchy noise and cuts out then comes back. Could this be a tube issue or did I really screw it up? I could take it to an authroized Fender repair shop in town but thought I might get some help here. Thanks.


Oops, forgot that one... though a bad tube won't crackle by itself, unless the socket pins are loose.

Try this first, before you take the back cover off to clean or probe:

Leave the back cover on, turn on the amp, turn up the volume again and tap each tube with a pencil or chopstick, starting with preamp tube 1 (closest to the input jack) and working your way across each pre amp tube and both power tubes. For any tube that is going microphonic you will hear an amplified faint "airy springy" noise, which are actually the internal components of the tube that are vibrating. Any crackling or intermittent noise or any tubes that feel unusually loose in their sockets would probably indicate lose tube socket pins.

Same probable cause as in my previous email, vibrations due to loud volume or shock damage (dropped, kicked, amp fell over, etc...)

_________________
93 Blues Deville 212
05 MIM Strat with 96 Am. Std. "Delta Tone" and Dimarzio Virtual Vintage pickups
98 Carvin Bolt with Dimarzio and Duncan pickups
Muzique.com Mini-Booster and MOSFET Booster
Ibanez TS-9 Reissue (TS-808 and flat-mid mods)


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Posted: Thu Nov 22, 2007 2:08 pm
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I would love to hear what you find out. I recently took delivery on a 2006 deville 410. My first tube amp in 40 years. The #2 channel is have volume stability issues, cutting out, scratchy, etc. Sounds similar to yours. It was shipped from Texas. If I give the strings a good stroke, the volume jumps all over the place. Channel 1 does NOT do this. Also, when there are no instruments plugged in, there is a faint intermittent "spitting" and subtle cracking...very faint but obvious in a quiet setting. Suggestions or comments?


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Posted: Thu Nov 22, 2007 2:19 pm
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hippdogs wrote:
I would love to hear what you find out. I recently took delivery on a 2006 deville 410. My first tube amp in 40 years. The #2 channel is have volume stability issues, cutting out, scratchy, etc. Sounds similar to yours. It was shipped from Texas. If I give the strings a good stroke, the volume jumps all over the place. Channel 1 does NOT do this. Also, when there are no instruments plugged in, there is a faint intermittent "spitting" and subtle cracking...very faint but obvious in a quiet setting. Suggestions or comments?


If its only misbehaving on Ch 2, then preamp tube #2 (middle of the 3) is bad or loose. Turn on the amp, switch to ch 2 and tap the 2nd preamp tube with a pencil. If you hear crackling and popping, then its a loose tube socket. If you hear amplified "springy mechanical noise" then the tube is bad.

If the tube is bad, turn off the amp, wait for things to cool, pull the preamp tube and replace - be sure to note the orientation of the pins.

Preamp tubes are cheap, shouldn't be more than $12-14 each, so you might as well replace both (or all three, if you're unsure of their age). If the amp is only a year old, I'd be willing to bet that they're the original tubes (they'll say Fender/Groove Tubes on the labels).

I've used Sovtek 12AX7WXT and JJ ECC83S with good results. Or try other combinations if you have other preferences. But in general, Sovteks are Russian, JJs are Slovakian and Ruby's are Chinese.

If the socket is loose, you'll need to either have the pins tightened (best to take it to a tech) or at worst, replaced. Either operation requires removing the back panel and possibly removing the chassis from the cabinet.

Its very common for tubes to go bad or sockets to get loose during shipping, which is why I pull all my tubes when shipping, especially in a non-original box.

_________________
93 Blues Deville 212
05 MIM Strat with 96 Am. Std. "Delta Tone" and Dimarzio Virtual Vintage pickups
98 Carvin Bolt with Dimarzio and Duncan pickups
Muzique.com Mini-Booster and MOSFET Booster
Ibanez TS-9 Reissue (TS-808 and flat-mid mods)


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