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Post subject: only the clean channel on my deville is tube?
Posted: Fri Nov 16, 2007 8:40 am
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i just read on this forum but in a diff room ,, the only tube driven channel on my fender deville 2x12 combo is the clean channel /? hugh learn somethin new everyday,, anybody know this to be true or false?/ rock on Dave


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Post subject: Re: only the clean channel on my deville is tube?
Posted: Tue Nov 20, 2007 11:19 am
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brigadier1 wrote:
i just read on this forum but in a diff room ,, the only tube driven channel on my fender deville 2x12 combo is the clean channel /? hugh learn somethin new everyday,, anybody know this to be true or false?/ rock on Dave


I wonder if this is then true with my Blues Deluxe.


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Post subject: Re: only the clean channel on my deville is tube?
Posted: Tue Nov 20, 2007 11:33 am
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brigadier1 wrote:
i just read on this forum but in a diff room ,, the only tube driven channel on my fender deville 2x12 combo is the clean channel /? hugh learn somethin new everyday,, anybody know this to be true or false?/ rock on Dave


No... both channels are tube driven. There are 3 12AX7 preamp tubes in the deville, each with 2 internal sections:

1st half of the 1st preamp tube (closest to input jack) is the input buffer.
2nd half of the 1st preamp tube is the clean channel.

1st half of the 2nd preamp tube (middle preamp tube) is the "dirty" channel
2nd half of the 2nd preamp tube is unused (there's a mod on the net to add this unused half to the signal chain of the 2nd channel, but I think it would get too muddy)

Both halves of the 3rd preamp tube (closest to the power tubes) are used as the phase inverter.

So, the signal path is as follows:

guitar > input jack > 1st preamp stage (input buffer) > channel switching circuitry > channel 1 (half of a 12AX7) OR channel 2 (half of a 12AX7) > reverb circuitry > phase inverter (both halves of a 12AX7) > power tubes > output transformer > speakers

Reverb drive and recovery are solid state.

In the Hot Rod series, the extra boost button adds solid state (diode) clipping for distortion. This feature is not present on the blues deville/deluxe.

Hope this helps.


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Post subject: again thanks
Posted: Tue Nov 20, 2007 2:03 pm
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woa nice! i was crappin my pants thinkin i only got a half tube amp thank you!!!! {for giving me my mind back! Rock on dave


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Posted: Wed Nov 28, 2007 3:08 pm
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Definitely all-tube signal path. There's a rumor that the drive is solidstate because, well solidstate parts are used in the preamp. However in the HR DeVilles (and Deluxes) use all 4 sides of the V1 & V2 12AX7s. As referred to above, the "more drive" boost uses, I believe, a couple of JFETS to help add 12.7 dbs of boost back into V2. So yes, there traditional solidstate parts in there, but only to help facilitate an increase in gain going to the tubes.

For more on the HR DeVille and Deluxes, check out this siite. Great info, and it address the SS distortion rumor.
http://studentweb.eku.edu/justin_holton/


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Post subject: Re: only the clean channel on my deville is tube?
Posted: Mon Mar 07, 2011 6:26 am
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hmm... Can you switch that solidstate diode out with something better? posting.php?mode=reply&f=13&t=3439#


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Post subject: Re: only the clean channel on my deville is tube?
Posted: Mon Mar 07, 2011 7:51 am
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dta74 wrote:
....In the Hot Rod series, the extra boost button adds solid state (diode) clipping for distortion....


Nice post dta74, except for the above, the difference is not diodes, there are never diodes in the signal path at any time, and there are no JFETs added to the signal path either. The JFETs are used simply to bypass the resistors that are in series withe the Cathode resistor bypass caps for the preamp tubes. The "drive" and "more drive" buttons, switch different values of resistors and capacitors into the signal path, switch volume and drive pots into the signal path, and add the other half of V2 to the signal path. The ONLY solid state components in the signal path are the reverb drive and recovery op amps, so if you turn the reverb all of the way down, no solid state components in the signal path at all. If you use the effects loop, you add an op amp to the signal path. :idea:

http://support.fender.com/schematics/guitar_amplifiers/Hot_Rod_DeVille_schematic.pdf

And, both halves of each preamp tube are used in both channels, with the exception of half of V2, it is added only for the drive channel in the HRds. Half of V2 is unused in the non-hot rod versions.

BTW, the OP didn't specify a Hot Rod Deville (HRDvl) or original Blues Deville (BDvl) or a Blues Deville Reissue (BDRI). :?:

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Post subject: Re: only the clean channel on my deville is tube?
Posted: Mon Mar 07, 2011 11:55 am
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shimmilou wrote:

Nice post dta74, except for the above, the difference is not diodes, there are never diodes in the signal path at any time, and there are no JFETs added to the signal path either. The JFETs are used simply to bypass the resistors that are in series withe the Cathode resistor bypass caps for the preamp tubes. The "drive" and "more drive" buttons, switch different values of resistors and capacitors into the signal path, switch volume and drive pots into the signal path, and add the other half of V2 to the signal path. The ONLY solid state components in the signal path are the reverb drive and recovery op amps, so if you turn the reverb all of the way down, no solid state components in the signal path at all. If you use the effects loop, you add an op amp to the signal path. :idea:

http://support.fender.com/schematics/guitar_amplifiers/Hot_Rod_DeVille_schematic.pdf

And, both halves of each preamp tube are used in both channels, with the exception of half of V2, it is added only for the drive channel in the HRds. Half of V2 is unused in the non-hot rod versions.

BTW, the OP didn't specify a Hot Rod Deville (HRDvl) or original Blues Deville (BDvl) or a Blues Deville Reissue (BDRI). :?:



Few questions. Doesn't it have a solid state rectifier? I'm pretty uneducated on Rectifiers in general but don't they have something to do with converting from AC to DC voltage and also adding natural compression at high volumes? How important are they?

Also, how is the reverb? I'm assuming it might have some undesirable digital breakup?

Is a Fender Deville 410 used but like new for 425 dollars a good deal worth jumping on?


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Post subject: Re: only the clean channel on my deville is tube?
Posted: Mon Mar 07, 2011 12:18 pm
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Yes, solid state rectifier, and yes the rectifier converts AC to DC. The DC high voltage is the supply to the tubes Plates. Tube rectifiers generally will allow a "sag" or drop in the DC high voltage as compared to the more steady solid state rectifier. This "sag" from the tube rectifier will affect the tone that the amp produces, desired by some people, hated by others. Some amps have a selector to switch between tube and solid state rectifier. On a Mesa amp, I couldn't hear much difference between the tube and solid state rectifiers, maybe a little.

And, same with the reverb, some prefer a tube driven/recovered reverb sound as compared to the solid state driven reverb (which is not digital BTW, still analog). And I would say that $425 for a Dvl 4x10 is very nice if the amp is in good condition with cover and foot switch, that's less than half the cost of a new one. :)

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Post subject: Re: only the clean channel on my deville is tube?
Posted: Mon Mar 07, 2011 5:23 pm
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shimmilou wrote:
I would say that $425 for a Dvl 4x10 is very nice if the amp is in good condition with cover and foot switch, that's less than half the cost of a new one. :)


Thanks for the advice. I went and picked up the amp today (It was a craigslist deal). So far I'm really pleased. Great fender cleans. The reverb sounds better than the blues jr. reverb but I suppose that's because of the Deville's bigger reverb tank.


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Post subject: Re: only the clean channel on my deville is tube?
Posted: Tue Mar 08, 2011 1:47 am
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"Sag" is a much ballyhoo'd and much argued over thing in some circles. Amps, pedals and soforth. The argument has repercussions that venture into the active/passive pickup debate as well. Of course. Naturally. We're guitarists so we argue about tone. VooDoo Labs offers a power supply for pedals with a built in sag which is purported to offer better tone from OD and distortion pedals. I view all of it (from amp rectifiers to pedals to pickups) the same as the Rosewood/Maple debate. Obviously apparent to some. Indeterminite to others. A non issue to me as any subtle difference I might perceive would be completely lost on even well educated listeners in the venue and realistically, what they hear is more important than what I hear.

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Post subject: Re: only the clean channel on my deville is tube?
Posted: Sun Mar 13, 2011 7:15 am
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I would say that the tube rectifier has a subtle affect on sound, however a more dramatic affect on feel.

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