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Post subject: Hot Rod Deluxe (real wattage)
Posted: Tue Dec 22, 2009 12:31 am
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Does anybody know which is the real wattage of a HRD set to max. (12, from 1 to 12) on the clean channel? (no pedals, no effects). Also, on the drive channel with both controls (master & gain) to máx.?
Thanks a lot.
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Posted: Tue Dec 22, 2009 6:31 am
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It's 40 watts. It hits full power around 4 and doesn't get much louder after that.


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Posted: Tue Dec 22, 2009 12:15 pm
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Don't know the wattage at max. The definitive answer would require a measurement. Like Supro said the amp is rated at a nominal output of 40watts. But this is total output before distortion. When the power amp moves into distortion, that number will rise, sometimes significantly. Watt meters are available at most electronic outlets. Otherwise, you could measure the output voltage and current, with a good multi-meter. Using Ohm's Law: Watts= amps X volts. Art

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Posted: Tue Dec 22, 2009 12:36 pm
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Once you get past the 40 watt rating, the sound is clipped so bad you couldn't use it anyhow. I wouldn't really worry about it. Also, you're only going to get so much out of the 6l6 power tubes anyway.


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Posted: Tue Dec 22, 2009 4:47 pm
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Yeah, it's an interesting question. Years ago, I had two fellas that always wanted the output wattage checked before they picked up their amps, even if the repairs or maintenance had nothing to do with the power amp section. Both were Marshall players, luckily they were only 50watt amps(JCM 800 & JCM900), but those amps would push up over 75watts. Even my AB763 Twin Reverb would do 100 watts, before max. Art

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Posted: Tue Dec 22, 2009 7:04 pm
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The 76 Twin I have is rated at 100 watts RMS 220 peak.


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Posted: Tue Dec 22, 2009 7:44 pm
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Yep, exactly what I was alluding to. The state of distortion in the power amp section can cause the output transformer to operate outside of it's nominal parameters. Art

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Posted: Tue Dec 22, 2009 9:53 pm
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Eladin, I let Supro get me talking. I guess you're thinkin about another speaker, right? Forget about all that mum-bo-jumbo, I was carried away by the moment. A quality 50watt speaker ( Weber, Celestion, Tone Tubby, Emminence, JBL, Electro-Voice, etc.) would be nice to try in your amp. I think a 100watt version might be too stiff. But the Mesa Boogie Mk III sure makes that 100watt Electro-Voice sing. Yeah, if you're going to run that amp wide open, I'd go for the 100watt Electro-Voice. That amp will be in ashes, long before that speaker gets tired. And that's OK ! These amps are meant to be used at whatever level you choose. Art

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Posted: Wed Dec 23, 2009 12:32 am
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aclempoppi wrote:
Eladin, I let Supro get me talking. I guess you're thinkin about another speaker, right? Forget about all that mum-bo-jumbo, I was carried away by the moment. A quality 50watt speaker ( Weber, Celestion, Tone Tubby, Emminence, JBL, Electro-Voice, etc.) would be nice to try in your amp. I think a 100watt version might be too stiff. But the Mesa Boogie Mk III sure makes that 100watt Electro-Voice sing. Yeah, if you're going to run that amp wide open, I'd go for the 100watt Electro-Voice. That amp will be in ashes, long before that speaker gets tired. And that's OK ! These amps are meant to be used at whatever level you choose. Art


Thanks to everybody for your comments!
You are right aclempoppi, I have installed an alnico Jensen P12Q (40 w.) and I wanted to know if I was going to blown it... I play at 4 or 5 (from 1 to 12) on the clean channel, but believe me, when pushed to max. (12) my HRD fells twice as loud. I don´t know why. I am running stock GT tubes, bias setted at 68 m... maybe it is due to my low output single coil pick ups...


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Posted: Wed Dec 23, 2009 6:17 am
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You're about maxed out at 4 or 5. The HRDlx has a linear taper volume pot. It won't get twice as loud at 12. It's at full volume at around 30 degrees on the dial. It sounds louder because you installed a higher quality, more efficient speaker. Take it easy on the speaker. It is possible to blow it out. Especially if you run any pedal that boosts the signal. There's not a lot of leeway. I'm running 2 Celestion Custom Elite 80 watt speakers on my Egnater Rebel and it's only 20 watts. Doesn't sound stiff at all once the speakers are broken in.

You can change your power tubes to JJ's and bias around 75-85mv and it will really sweeten up the tone. YMMV 68mv is really kind of cold. GT's seem to fail a lot when biased above 72mv for some reason.
Check www.eurotubes.com for biasing instructions.


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Posted: Wed Dec 23, 2009 10:26 am
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63supro wrote:
You're about maxed out at 4 or 5. The HRDlx has a linear taper volume pot. It won't get twice as loud at 12. It's at full volume at around 30 degrees on the dial. It sounds louder because you installed a higher quality, more efficient speaker. Take it easy on the speaker. It is possible to blow it out. Especially if you run any pedal that boosts the signal. There's not a lot of leeway. I'm running 2 Celestion Custom Elite 80 watt speakers on my Egnater Rebel and it's only 20 watts. Doesn't sound stiff at all once the speakers are broken in.

You can change your power tubes to JJ's and bias around 75-85mv and it will really sweeten up the tone. YMMV 68mv is really kind of cold. GT's seem to fail a lot when biased above 72mv for some reason.
Check www.eurotubes.com for biasing instructions.


Thanks 63supro, always very helpful! :)

I do not want to damage the amp, so, is there any sign when the speaker is going to fail? How can I recognise it? Just a fart bass sound, or something like that? I do not want to cause any damage to the amp because of a blown speaker, so I would like to know any clue not too late... (In other post I was wondering about installing a 25w. Greenback, but I was finally discouraged considering the risks...) :?

Regarding bias: I thought my power tubes were running on the hotter side... My tech set the bias at 68ma, because the plate voltage was 325mv, and it was near the maximum. The tone improved substantially from stock bias (although stock it was not so cold anyway, sth. like 60ma.)

In the future I will try with JJ 6V6 power tubes, which reduces the output to 30w (with a cost of tone???) in order to be safer for the speaker. If I do not change it before! ;) :roll:

The point is that I am trying to real ‘hot rodding’ my HRD step by step, just to see how the tone improves (or at least, changes) with each one, and not with all the mods all together. First was the bias; second the speaker (stock Celestion G12P80, later Celestion V30, now a Jensen P12Q...); third will be JJ Tesla pre amp tubes (the “Blues option”, recommended in Eurotubes); and finally JJ 6V6 power tubes.

By now, with the bias and the speaker (Jensen P12Q) the tone really improved, and now it has a late 50´s Tweed character, unmistakable vintage. Even the reverb and the gain channel improved a lot with the same tubes, just because of the speaker.


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Posted: Wed Dec 23, 2009 11:05 am
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I wouldn't run 6V6's. The amps not made for it. 40 watts isn's much louder than 30 watts. My HRDlx's plate voltage from what I remember was around 430v. I ran my JJ's at a little under 70% dissipation and was about 85mv with no problem.


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Posted: Wed Dec 23, 2009 3:47 pm
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63supro wrote:
I wouldn't run 6V6's. The amps not made for it. 40 watts isn's much louder than 30 watts. My HRDlx's plate voltage from what I remember was around 430v. I ran my JJ's at a little under 70% dissipation and was about 85mv with no problem.


that's interesting as euro tubes reckon 6v6's are ok and many run them in hotrod's,but i use jj 6l6 and jjecc83s and bias is set at 88mv and really sounds great,whats your thought on euro saying you can run jj 6l6 tubes as high as 95mv,but recommend around 90mv!i want my tubes to last awhile and not cook them!

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Posted: Wed Dec 23, 2009 4:33 pm
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It depends on your actual plate voltage. Thing is Bob does sell tubes. :D


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Posted: Wed Dec 23, 2009 7:28 pm
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It seems a few current production 6V6 tubes have been beefed up to handle 450+ plate volts(Sovtek, Electro-Harmonix, and maybe JJ too). Even the old RCAs could take 425VDC for many years. Anyway, I have a question about the bias measurements you guys are using. I realize the ma current is being converted to mv through a resistor circuit, and that the two tubes are being combined before the test point. I understand the 70% dissapation principle inorder to avoid any crossover notch, but my question is about what's happening with each tube. If one measures 88mv at the test point, one is assuming a 44 ma current running through each tube, right? The assumption is based on the matching of the tubes being spot on, right? But I have found many instances of "matched" tubes being 5-6ma apart,and some even more. These are from at least five different vendors, some of which you guys mention. So, do you guys check the mv or ma on each tube? Art

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